WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.900 Episode 80 of the Church Digital Podcast, powered, once again, powered by Stadia Church Planning. 00:00:05.060 --> 00:00:08.040 Jeff here, we've got a great episode, but before we get there, 00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:13.800 we are still celebrating our 10,000th podcast play here at the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:14.040 --> 00:00:19.840 And to that end, I want to give away some coffee to our listeners and thank our listeners for listening to this. 00:00:20.200 --> 00:00:21.260 Here's what I'm looking for. 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:25.460 Go to thechurch.digital.com slash 10K. 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:30.320 It's a simple process that we just want to hear how we, the Church Digital, 00:00:30.420 --> 00:00:32.860 how we're making a difference in the life of your church. 00:00:33.080 --> 00:00:38.040 So often we're creating this content and we're getting feedback, but we'd love to get some more from you guys. 00:00:38.040 --> 00:00:40.160 So how are we, the Church Digital, helping? 00:00:40.580 --> 00:00:41.760 How can we help some more? 00:00:42.300 --> 00:00:47.640 Follow the process there at thechurch.digital slash 10, the number 10 and a K. 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:49.020 The link is in the show notes. 00:00:49.460 --> 00:00:50.120 Dive into it. 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:50.620 All right. 00:00:50.740 --> 00:00:52.140 Here we are with this episode. 00:00:52.340 --> 00:00:54.640 And this one, it's close to home. 00:00:54.740 --> 00:00:57.080 I loved seeing this happen. 00:00:57.440 --> 00:00:59.460 We're bringing in Angela Craig to the conversation. 00:00:59.660 --> 00:01:03.300 Now, pre-COVID, Angela Craig wasn't even on my radar. 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:10.000 And I said that on the show and I'm a little embarrassed once I kind of heard who she was that I didn't know about her. 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:16.820 Because Angela, for the past three years, has been running a digital-only church on Facebook. 00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:19.100 Yeah, it's Pursuit Church Live. 00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:25.080 And as a matter of fact, it was like the first social media church of the Assemblies of God denomination. 00:01:25.660 --> 00:01:31.540 I don't know if there's a lot of other social media churches or if the Assemblies of God denomination is doing more, but that's her deal. 00:01:31.660 --> 00:01:35.000 It's the first Assemblies of God church on social media. 00:01:35.420 --> 00:01:37.080 And so she's been doing it for three years. 00:01:37.080 --> 00:01:38.720 Some fascinating stories. 00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:43.060 She's hitting 43 countries, 45 languages. 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:55.480 And so it's really, really interesting how she's been able to not only get this huge reach, but by utilizing the Facebook platform, she's getting some really solid engagement. 00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:06.340 And where it's getting into this relational approach that we talk about so much with church online, and even now with this digital-only expression of church. 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:11.460 Now, some of you out there are saying right now, wait, digital-only as in not in the physical space? 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:13.900 Yeah, that was really controversial pre-COVID. 00:02:14.300 --> 00:02:15.100 We're all doing it. 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:22.260 Maybe as we go back to the buildings, there's going to be this mix, this hybrid, this digital approach of physical and digital. 00:02:22.880 --> 00:02:32.800 But I love pioneers like what we see out of Angela here, who even three years ago were pushing all in on this idea of digital-only. 00:02:33.460 --> 00:02:38.400 And through Stadia, we are looking to launch more of these digital-only churches. 00:02:38.620 --> 00:02:43.800 So as some of you guys are listening to this and you're saying, hey, this is a really interesting idea. 00:02:44.160 --> 00:02:46.580 Hey, I might be interested in doing something like that. 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:47.860 I want to hear from you. 00:02:47.920 --> 00:02:48.540 So do me a favor. 00:02:48.940 --> 00:02:49.700 Let's reach out. 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:50.340 Let's connect. 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:52.180 Jeff at thechurch.digital. 00:02:52.420 --> 00:02:53.980 Check out the show notes and the podcast. 00:02:54.220 --> 00:02:56.920 There's a ton of different ways to get in touch with me. 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:03.620 But at the end of the day, we, Stadia, want to help people like Angela figure this out. 00:03:03.740 --> 00:03:04.460 God bless Angela. 00:03:04.600 --> 00:03:07.100 Three years ago, she didn't have the help. 00:03:07.180 --> 00:03:08.140 She didn't have the guidance. 00:03:08.720 --> 00:03:10.400 We want to be the guidance at Stadia. 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:12.800 So if you're interested, let's have that conversation. 00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:22.380 Angela, hats off to the lady here for following her calling, for doing the thing when the rest 00:03:22.380 --> 00:03:28.260 of the world thought she was crazy, and for being able to sit back and watch how her faithfulness 00:03:28.260 --> 00:03:31.180 has reaped rewards as a result of it. 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:37.840 God, thank you for doing something through this ministry of Pursuit Church Live that Angela's 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.200 created here on Facebook. 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:43.120 So here we are in the conversation for Angela's story. 00:03:43.380 --> 00:03:44.360 That's not the name of the podcast. 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:46.420 I think that's the name of a movie, right? 00:03:46.480 --> 00:03:46.900 Is that a movie? 00:03:46.980 --> 00:03:47.100 No. 00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:47.640 All right. 00:03:47.640 --> 00:03:48.980 So here we're bringing it into the conversation. 00:03:49.140 --> 00:03:51.680 Angela Craig, lead pastor, Pursuit Church Live. 00:03:51.980 --> 00:03:57.020 Myself, Jeff with the Church Digital and director of digital church planting for Stadia Church 00:03:57.020 --> 00:04:01.780 Planting in a conversation that I'm calling Planning a Digital Church on Social Media. 00:04:02.200 --> 00:04:03.800 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:04:04.260 --> 00:04:11.040 Officially, my title was ordained minister with the Assembly of God, and I became an ordained 00:04:11.040 --> 00:04:14.280 minister probably 11 years ago. 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:20.780 I was working for Northwest Ministry Network, which is basically, if you are familiar with 00:04:20.780 --> 00:04:28.300 Assembly of God, they are a training office for, I'm in the state of Washington, and so we 00:04:28.300 --> 00:04:34.240 have 320 churches, Assembly of God churches, and so we're responsible for training, equipping, 00:04:34.700 --> 00:04:38.200 strengthening, encouraging pastors and leaders of those churches. 00:04:38.200 --> 00:04:49.000 So I did that for 10 years, and I actually started Facebook groups with credentialed women about 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:54.900 six years ago, and that is how I, that was kind of the start of digital ministry for me. 00:04:55.160 --> 00:05:01.040 So you started the Facebook and was doing the groups with that, and so how did that lead? 00:05:01.100 --> 00:05:06.400 So you're doing Facebook groups, but now with Pursuit Church Live, you're doing like a more 00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:10.540 tangible church, like maybe describe how you started with the church. 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:15.740 Yeah, so as a director at the Northwest Ministry Network, I was, think of me like as a leadership 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:23.140 coach and encourager, and so these Facebook groups I started for women who knew they were 00:05:23.140 --> 00:05:25.280 called to ministry, but didn't know how to get started. 00:05:25.900 --> 00:05:32.960 But what I found out in that experiment was that about 40% of the women who were coming into 00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:39.080 the groups through Facebook didn't have a church that they would call their home church, and 00:05:39.080 --> 00:05:46.000 I love people, and I'm always wanting to include everybody, and I saw this whole category of 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:52.220 people who wouldn't go to church or couldn't go to church or didn't have a church, but really 00:05:52.220 --> 00:05:59.380 wanted to know Jesus, were interested in exploring faith, interested in exploring purpose, and wanted 00:05:59.380 --> 00:06:06.740 to be a part of this group, and so strangers became friends with authentic relationship, and 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:11.220 we were able to disciple every day, not just on Sundays for half an hour. 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:17.800 At the same time, I was also working and volunteering in my own local church and felt the frustration 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:25.180 of seeing people leave, seeing people not be able to attend, and wondering like how, that was the 00:06:25.180 --> 00:06:28.780 biggest question we were asking at our church, and I think most churches, how do we get people 00:06:28.780 --> 00:06:29.680 to come to church? 00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:37.000 And so we had to figure out how to bring church to them, and I really see that modeled in the 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:37.620 life of Jesus. 00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:42.540 He went to people, and he went where the people were, and this was kind of my light bulb, 00:06:42.960 --> 00:06:44.800 aha, is the people are on Facebook. 00:06:45.460 --> 00:06:48.140 So that's how we started. 00:06:48.780 --> 00:06:55.320 In 2017, I asked our superintendent of our network, who was in charge of church planting 00:06:55.320 --> 00:07:01.520 at the time, I said, I want to try this digital-only church, and he said, go for it. 00:07:01.580 --> 00:07:09.020 Now, that took, in June of 2017, it took until May to actually be approved as the first social 00:07:09.020 --> 00:07:15.480 media church of assembly of God by the national office, because, you know, how do you, there's no 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:21.920 walls, how do you count people? There's all these, all these things that happen when you do digital 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:24.380 church. So that's how we got started, 2017. 00:07:25.340 --> 00:07:32.980 That's awesome. So the first assemblies of God social media church. So, I mean, there's a couple 00:07:32.980 --> 00:07:38.240 questions, even with that statement, and I want the audience to understand, like, what a digital 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:45.960 church is in this context. So you mentioned 10,000 people, Facebook only running that platform, 00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:53.740 seeing the algorithms, reaching 45 countries, international reach very quickly in the grand 00:07:53.740 --> 00:08:00.540 scheme of things. What are the offerings, not money standpoint, as much as, like, what does a 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:09.040 physical church do? What does it look like? Services, groups, like, what's the life of a digital church 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:10.800 there with Pursuit Church Live? 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:17.640 Well, that has actually morphed over time, and one of the big things I tell people about digital 00:08:17.640 --> 00:08:24.220 ministry is that you have to get outside the church box. So working in a church, I had ideas about what 00:08:24.220 --> 00:08:30.260 church looked like, but people online that don't know Jesus or have left church don't necessarily need 00:08:30.260 --> 00:08:40.700 online church to look like church. What they need is someone to really get to know them. 00:08:41.020 --> 00:08:47.000 So what we do, you might look online and be like, well, what are they doing exactly? We're making Jesus 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:54.980 a center of social media. That's the hook. Like, we're tailoring it to things that are relevant to 00:08:54.980 --> 00:09:04.640 people today. So we have to adapt. Before COVID, we were adapting, meaning we would change what we were 00:09:04.640 --> 00:09:12.580 doing about every four to six weeks. And that we've tried a sermon series like a regular church in the 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:22.480 past. And that was effective, but not as effective as what we're doing now. So during COVID, we'll change in 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:29.280 24 hours, depending on what people are needing. Like, you have to be really in touch with your demographic 00:09:29.280 --> 00:09:33.540 of what they're needing in the moment, and then address those things. And that's the great thing 00:09:33.540 --> 00:09:41.980 about being on social media, is that you can follow, okay, God, what do your people need to know you 00:09:41.980 --> 00:09:49.140 now? What can we do to introduce them to faith, and then to build them in their faith? And so being online, 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:56.660 we can build community, we can disciple, and we can care for people much more than what it looks like 00:09:56.660 --> 00:10:01.980 if you were just to go to Proceed Church Live on Facebook and look at the outside. There's a whole 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:08.280 lot more going on behind the scenes of how we do that. Yeah. And you guys, like all the community, 00:10:08.280 --> 00:10:13.380 all that for you is centered on that Facebook platform. That's what you're using pretty much 00:10:13.380 --> 00:10:19.240 exclusively to really do the ministry. Well, and financially, it's free. 00:10:21.540 --> 00:10:26.760 Can't beat that. No, you can't beat that. It's great. It's a good financial model. 00:10:27.280 --> 00:10:32.180 What was the AOG's kind of response? How difficult was it at the denominational level 00:10:32.180 --> 00:10:38.080 to maybe rattle some cages? Because like, the idea of a social media in itself is controversial 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:45.140 individually, working with a denomination like AOG probably provided some challenges as well. 00:10:46.140 --> 00:10:50.920 So like, what was that conversation like as you're trying to figure out 00:10:50.920 --> 00:10:57.800 how to do a social media church to get some of that approval and help from organizations? 00:10:57.800 --> 00:11:06.140 That's a good question. I think for me, I just moved forward as without the approval of the national 00:11:06.140 --> 00:11:11.940 office. I figured if they were going to approve it, great. But when God calls you, you have to be 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:20.480 obedient, right? And so I figured I'm doing this. And if they don't approve me, I'm still doing this. 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:25.900 If they do approve me, I'm still doing this. And so eventually they, with the advocacy of my network 00:11:25.900 --> 00:11:31.300 and my superintendent, who was a big fan of this idea, because he is all about reaching everyone 00:11:31.300 --> 00:11:36.000 for Jesus without boundaries. He doesn't have mental boundaries about it. So at the time he was 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:41.760 like, let's plant churches in, you know, if you work at Boeing or at Microsoft, let's plant churches 00:11:41.760 --> 00:11:46.920 in the lunchroom. So let's have small groups. And so he was all about reaching people where you could 00:11:46.920 --> 00:11:54.620 reach them or where your influence was. So he was a huge advocate for me and our church structure. 00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:04.540 And so, and also AG is a huge mission organization. And so I think in the end, they saw this as 00:12:04.540 --> 00:12:09.900 church, our church, Pursuit Church Live, as a mission organization, because we were able 00:12:09.900 --> 00:12:18.580 to reach into every corner of the world through social media. And, and so that's how we got approved. 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:26.040 But the other part is like, what is a social media church? So social media, Facebook, you know, 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:32.840 obviously you've, you've, you've got the networks. What, what, how, how are you using those networks? 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:39.940 What, what does it look like? And even what makes you a church, quote unquote, on these social media 00:12:39.940 --> 00:12:40.440 networks? 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:46.420 That's a great question. When we started, we tried everything. So we tried streaming, we tried 00:12:46.420 --> 00:12:54.740 YouTube, we tried Instagram, WhatsApp. I developed, I learned how to develop an app. Like I created an 00:12:54.740 --> 00:13:03.800 app. If you've seen Church Home, their app, that's my dream app. But also to have a good amount of money 00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:08.680 to do that. If you haven't, check it out because it's, it's a great, it's a great tool to put Jesus 00:13:08.680 --> 00:13:16.400 in people's hands every day. And so what I found was then we couldn't really do anything well because 00:13:16.400 --> 00:13:23.040 we were so diverse. And we, and also when we were streaming to our website, which many churches still 00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:30.760 do, all the traffic was coming from Facebook. So when you look at Facebook has 2.6 billion people 00:13:30.760 --> 00:13:37.880 a month. And right now they're spending about a little under an hour, I think 58 minutes or something 00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:48.820 a day. And I couldn't pass up that opportunity. And so we had enough traffic. We were in 45 countries 00:13:48.820 --> 00:14:00.000 and 43 languages after the first year that that was plenty of people to disciple. So we could have gone 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:05.520 wider, but we wanted to go deeper. We wanted our roots to go deeper. And so we decided that that 00:14:05.520 --> 00:14:12.380 was going to be our platform, Facebook. And we do dabble in other things, but that is where we train 00:14:12.380 --> 00:14:17.680 leaders. Like on Instagram, I have a leader who we're training and she's, she's an up and coming 00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:23.900 20 something who is doing live video and learning how to disciple online through that, 00:14:24.180 --> 00:14:28.780 through that opportunity on Instagram. But, but Facebook is our main platform. 00:14:28.780 --> 00:14:34.000 Now I'm going to back up a little bit because you just surprised me. One year in 45 countries, 00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:39.460 43 languages. Unpack that. Cause we, we talk about how, you know, physical, their strengths, 00:14:39.640 --> 00:14:43.400 digital, their strengths, their strengths and weaknesses with the both within a year, 00:14:43.400 --> 00:14:48.780 you're essentially hitting 45 nations and, and 43 languages. Ain't no way you're doing that 00:14:48.780 --> 00:14:51.940 in the physical space. So, so tell me what that looks like digitally. 00:14:52.300 --> 00:15:00.600 Surprising. Since I didn't know anything about Facebook algorithms, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:05.000 know anything. All I knew is that God was calling me to reach people that were spiritually homeless, 00:15:05.520 --> 00:15:09.700 people that didn't have a place they could call their home, people that needed to be seen. And 00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:18.000 people are on Facebook on social media to be seen. And we all know that. And so, um, and I love to make 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:24.840 people know their lives matter. And so I didn't know that it would be like that 10,000 people and 45 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:32.260 countries and 43 languages. And that's really small actually in the big picture. Um, but that was all 00:15:32.260 --> 00:15:39.680 due to Facebook algorithms for free. I didn't do any promoting. And, and so that's, there is power in, 00:15:39.880 --> 00:15:46.020 in, for the local church, for the, the digital minister who wants to plant just a digital only 00:15:46.020 --> 00:15:51.920 church, uh, which I hope more people will do. There's so much potential, untapped potential in 00:15:51.920 --> 00:16:00.260 what we can do reaching every corner, uh, for, for Jesus. And it just makes the Bible come alive. 00:16:00.260 --> 00:16:06.060 When those words, you read those words on the page of, of scripture saying that we should go 00:16:06.060 --> 00:16:11.600 to every corner of the world. So, um, when you do digital ministry, I think your eyes are open to 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:16.280 the bigger picture of how you can reach so many people. So you've been doing this three years, 00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:21.200 you started 2017. So like three years, bad math, probably 18, 19, 20, right? Somewhere close to 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:25.960 three years now. Three years, this, actually this month. Awesome. So, I mean, three years in, 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.700 there's gotta be some great stories. Um, like tell us some examples, 00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:35.440 tell us some, some stories of, of, of life change or what's coming out of Pursuit Church Life. 00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:42.780 So I do, I have more stories than we have time for, which is just amazing. And I remember the first 00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:49.820 time I realized how important Pursuit Church Life could be was the September after we had started. 00:16:49.820 --> 00:16:54.220 So we were just a couple of months in, I had no idea what we were doing. We were just dabbling in 00:16:54.220 --> 00:17:01.480 everything. My husband and I, and our youngest son went on a, on a camping trip for my birthday and we did a 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:06.600 kayaking trip. And on this trip, we met a woman named Debbie and she'd been living in this kind of rural 00:17:06.600 --> 00:17:14.400 area. Uh, no churches, no community. She was taking care of a friend who was disabled and she'd been there 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:19.940 18 months without any community outside this friend. And so we got talking, you know, in this four hour 00:17:19.940 --> 00:17:27.860 journey, uh, uh, just about her life, where she was from. And, and she asked what I did. And I told 00:17:27.860 --> 00:17:34.920 her that I had just started this, um, this online church. And, um, at the end I asked if I could pray 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:40.440 with her, if I, if I could give her my car, you know, my phone number and, and I would love to get 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:45.640 her connected to our community at the time. I was like, cause you could do it on Facebook. And it was, 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:53.740 um, in that moment I realized if I was pastoring a local church in the Seattle area where I'm from, 00:17:53.860 --> 00:17:58.560 she never could have attended that church. And there wasn't a church in the little town that 00:17:58.560 --> 00:18:05.860 she was in. Uh, and so this, my eyes were really opened like to the power of this. Well, 00:18:06.620 --> 00:18:12.260 fast forward, Debbie, um, not long after that, I followed up with a text and she started coming to 00:18:12.260 --> 00:18:17.620 pursue church life, attending online. And then we did a lot of talking. She joined one of our groups 00:18:17.620 --> 00:18:23.600 and, uh, she gave her life to Christ. And then she moved, when she moved home, now she's serving 00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:31.000 in her local church. So that's the other piece of this is so often people are, uh, disenfranchised 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:37.720 from the church for some reason. And then they come into this very safe and authentic online community 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:44.540 and then are planted back in, in person community. And so I just heard from Debbie, I don't know, 00:18:44.620 --> 00:18:49.760 maybe six weeks ago, just about the stuff that she's doing in her local church and how her, I mean, 00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:57.020 her life has drastically changed. I was like, wow. Okay. This is the power of it. That's just one, 00:18:57.120 --> 00:19:02.880 one story. Um, globally, I never would have thought when I started this, that we would have a worship 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:09.720 leader who I would never meet going live on Facebook to lead worship from Uganda. I mean, 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:15.760 that was not in my mind that was in God's mind, but that was not in my mind. And so to be able to 00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:22.980 build bridges with other, um, countries and, uh, people of different social and economical backgrounds 00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:30.840 and, and race and gender and, uh, age or disability. I mean, it's just bringing this global community of 00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:37.880 people together to follow Christ is, is like, is so powerful, uh, and, and so rewarding that those are 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:43.580 the things that make you stay with it because you know, it's God's plan to do this. Um, and then the last 00:19:43.580 --> 00:19:49.620 story I'm going to tell you as about one of our team leaders, Dee, and she's a amazing human being. 00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:56.160 She lives in Colorado and I met her online. Um, I did kind of this, usually when you church plant, 00:19:56.280 --> 00:20:03.520 you recruit a team first, but since I didn't digital ministry churches were not around when I did this, 00:20:03.520 --> 00:20:10.320 I did it backwards. So I basically started and then did my recruiting by identifying people online who 00:20:10.320 --> 00:20:17.560 were engaged, who, um, who had said they were all in at Pursuit Church Live. And Dee was one of those 00:20:17.560 --> 00:20:24.660 people. And, and, uh, she has MS, can't leave her home, uh, can't attend her local church. And she's, 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:32.140 uh, within a few months was leading our E team. And she's just an absolute fabulous encourager of 00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:39.660 encouragers. And now she, we're starting a school, um, well, a ministry school in partnership with 00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:46.220 Northwest University, where I teach here in the Kirkland area. And, uh, and so she's going to go 00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:50.320 and get another degree. She's already got three degrees, but she's going to get a ministry degree 00:20:50.320 --> 00:20:56.520 and become a credentialed minister. And she's starting an online, uh, micro community through 00:20:56.520 --> 00:21:02.600 Pursuit Church Live, which is something we're doing now. And so that in, you know, three years, 00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:08.460 that's incredible to me, like the potential of what we could do, uh, especially when we're partnered 00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:14.020 together, like, um, especially with like you, knowing you, Jeff, I mean, that's just makes it so 00:21:14.020 --> 00:21:21.520 much easier when we do it together. So you're, you're getting into, uh, a school. You, so you're a 00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:27.960 teacher and you're connecting, so you're providing online education. Uh, you've got, uh, somebody who's 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:33.980 launching a micro location out of your digital only, like you're seeing a lot of opportunities for 00:21:33.980 --> 00:21:41.100 greater understanding, development, leadership, pipeline. Um, you know, even to person, we talk a 00:21:41.100 --> 00:21:47.220 lot in the show about online to offline, the gospel we learn in the online world. It has to affect our 00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:53.500 offline relationships and what you're describing with Dede, where now she's, excuse me, D of where 00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:58.760 she's going. And now she's creating a watch party, a micro location, like a house church type of thing. 00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:04.300 That's awesome. Was that in the roadmap? Was that her idea? Was that something you've 00:22:04.300 --> 00:22:07.880 organizationally wanted to do? What's kind of the genesis of the micro location? 00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:13.300 Well, I don't know how God talks to you, but I remember before we start the spring, before we 00:22:13.300 --> 00:22:16.820 planted Pursuit Church Live and I was standing in the kitchen in front of the microwave, 00:22:17.580 --> 00:22:24.340 probably making another cup of coffee. Anybody who likes coffee. And I just heard God say, 00:22:24.580 --> 00:22:30.380 you know, Pursuit Paris, Pursuit Seattle, Pursuit. And he was just naming off places 00:22:30.380 --> 00:22:37.040 in the world. I was like, okay, God, whatever you go right for it. I just want to do this one thing 00:22:37.040 --> 00:22:43.040 right here and see what happens. And so this is the year that now we're actually, 00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:49.680 we have our feet underneath us. And so we're moving forward. And the groups that I thought 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:54.380 he was showing me were in person. And the three groups we have starting are all online digital 00:22:54.380 --> 00:22:58.800 churches, small, well, I don't know that they'll be small, but they're, they're, 00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:06.800 there'll be micro groups through, through Pursuit Church Live. Two of them are topical, 00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:13.040 like they're addressing a specific demographic. So D, her demographic, her group is moving mountains. 00:23:13.040 --> 00:23:17.720 And she wants to talk to people that have any kind of disability or people with chronic illness 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:22.680 groups and help them to know faith and to walk, you know, to, to grow in their faith. 00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:32.500 Gary, he already has an in-person group of people that are part of a retirement community. But then 00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:38.920 when everything went online, he started doing online for his church and realized how many people were 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:45.280 left out because they were online, but they're very isolated and alone. And so now he's starting a 00:23:45.280 --> 00:23:52.780 micro community for people of mature age, we like to call it. And, and so he's going to do that. And 00:23:52.780 --> 00:23:59.620 then Nadine and her husband, Roger, they are, they feel called to their local town in Pueblo, 00:23:59.760 --> 00:24:08.800 Colorado. And so they're starting kind of a, I love Pueblo Facebook group to resource people in areas 00:24:08.800 --> 00:24:15.260 of drug addiction and gang related activity and homelessness. And so that we're just going, 00:24:15.260 --> 00:24:21.500 where the need is really. And I think that's important to be really adaptable and flexible 00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:25.220 as far as digital ministry is concerned. We need everybody in it. 00:24:26.180 --> 00:24:31.040 You know, and what, what I love here is you're empowering other people to do ministry. You're 00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:38.700 doing, you're empowering these people in Pueblo, Colorado and, and others to, to, to do ministry. 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:45.340 It's, it's not watch this and process this content. It's, let me give you the tools. Let me give you 00:24:45.340 --> 00:24:51.760 the opportunity to reach your circle of influence, whether in Pueblo, Colorado or, or anywhere, or 00:24:51.760 --> 00:24:56.300 even, I would imagine even utilizing the Facebook platform as well. From a technical standpoint, 00:24:56.300 --> 00:25:01.500 I don't want to die here, but it's, it's a really smart platform to use because you're able to get 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:08.020 people's profile information out of Facebook so easy as opposed to broadcasting services on, 00:25:08.020 --> 00:25:13.080 on CHOP or church online platform or things like this, where you'll get tens of thousands of people 00:25:13.080 --> 00:25:17.700 viewing, but only a couple of people are actually filling out the connection cards. Facebook gives 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:21.460 you that information more readily available. So that's, that's awesome. 00:25:21.460 --> 00:25:27.400 Yeah. I was just going to say things that are behind the scene with that is how I can message 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:32.740 anybody who likes a post. And I spent a lot of time doing that. And so if you're doing digital 00:25:32.740 --> 00:25:39.260 ministry, if that's not your strength, like for instance, streaming really professional, I won't 00:25:39.260 --> 00:25:45.600 say excellent, but professional content was not my thing. Like I'm not, I'm not a camera person. I'm not 00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:52.480 a tech person, although I've become definitely more techie, but I am more of a relational person. And so 00:25:52.480 --> 00:26:00.000 for me, just being able to know people that God sees them that, and that starts with us as Christians 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.000 seeing people, um, that's where it started. So the whole, yeah, Facebook and being able to reach out 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:12.420 to people is really, really important. I love the fact that you just said you, you reply via Facebook 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:17.420 Messenger when people like posts. To me, it's like, if we're going to, if we're going to say something on 00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:22.960 social media and if people like it, that's like the invitation to start the conversation. That's not 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:28.960 the end game. That's not, Hey, I got 187 likes on this post. What'd you do with that? Like, how is 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:34.640 that helping getting, building that relationship, engage and have some conversations? We've talked with 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:42.120 several, uh, people lately. Patrick's a church planner, um, in Columbus, Ohio and Patrick, it doesn't even 00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:47.000 live in Columbus. And he's using Facebook Messenger and Facebook groups to connect with people 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:52.320 that he doesn't even know. And basically start to talk to him about being as on part of his core team. 00:26:52.320 --> 00:26:58.060 And basically through like Facebook Messenger, he's recruited 40 to 50 leaders in Columbus when 00:26:58.060 --> 00:27:03.680 he doesn't even live in the state. He's doing it all interstate. I think he's in Michigan. 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.860 And so incredible opportunities to reach and build relationships digitally. 00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:12.860 That's really encouraging. And honestly, I've never met, well, until we had our first 00:27:12.860 --> 00:27:20.480 in-person Pursuit Church Live gathering this past October, I had not met any of my team except for 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:31.520 two. And I had at the time, I don't know, 44 people. So that it does change the way you look at 00:27:31.520 --> 00:27:37.120 building teams. I also would encourage people not, I mean, to think outside the box, as far as 00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:44.980 during the summer, I had two, my first summer had two interns that had not gone to church growing up, 00:27:45.460 --> 00:27:53.020 had never read the Bible. And they interned in my office and, and both of them, um, gave their life 00:27:53.020 --> 00:27:58.520 to Christ and now are doing young life or, you know, and one's going to college this year and the other 00:27:58.520 --> 00:28:03.280 one is going to be a senior in college. I just remember sitting like right here where my desk is, 00:28:03.340 --> 00:28:09.960 one of them sitting across from me and I'm having her make graphics, uh, and find Bible verses on the 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:16.240 topics we were doing. And, and, and she pulled up some really great scriptures. I'm like, who taught you 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:22.520 the Bible? And she said, well, you did, you taught me the Bible. And I was like, this was two weeks in, 00:28:23.020 --> 00:28:29.140 I taught her, all I did was teach her how to find answers in the Bible. And I was like, okay, 00:28:29.140 --> 00:28:37.380 when I worked in, at a church building, I never did this much discipleship. I spent 90% of my time 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:43.460 working on the program. And then an hour on Sundays, talking to people in the lobby, 00:28:43.460 --> 00:28:50.540 an hour on Wednesdays leading women's Bible study. It, there is no comparison. There's absolutely no 00:28:50.540 --> 00:28:57.420 comparison. And I'm not saying that you can't do, uh, 90% of stuff that is not discipleship online. 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:05.640 You absolutely can. And I'm trying to help pastors now, uh, realize that we need to invest our time 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:11.600 wisely if the world is going to know Jesus. And that's not always going to be in, you know, 00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:20.160 just these incredible flashy videos, um, and, and excellent content. I mean, I love excellent 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:25.300 content. I love professional looking content. I love all of that, but people honestly just want 00:29:25.300 --> 00:29:31.220 to know that you care about them. So true. And the, the challenge though, with Facebook and like, 00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:35.420 I'll just, I'll put on my detractor hat because I've had this conversation enough in my life. 00:29:35.620 --> 00:29:41.180 Yeah. Jeff, you don't know these people, like the fact that you have 44 leaders and you had only met 00:29:41.180 --> 00:29:45.520 two of them, but you considered them a leader and was engaging and was involved in their, in their 00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:51.560 lives. You mentioned the words authentic community. I don't know, maybe 10 minutes ago, like in some 00:29:51.560 --> 00:29:58.000 people's minds, you cannot do authentic community in digital space, in digital community, all the 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:02.780 authentic stuff that happens in the physical building. Digital community is shallow. Have you ever hung 00:30:02.780 --> 00:30:09.500 out on Twitter, Facebook? Like people are abandoning, uh, because of all the, the, the cultural tensions 00:30:09.500 --> 00:30:17.920 in life. And somehow in the midst of, of this social media distaste, uh, you've managed to carve out 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:25.700 relational ministry, authentic relationships, uh, empowering others to, to reach out via these same 00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:31.880 networks. Like what were the challenges? How, how did you overcome that? How, how, some of these people 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:35.040 that, that are questioning this, how, how would you respond to that? 00:30:35.340 --> 00:30:41.560 Well, I, I think I, I have a calling I have to follow. And if people don't understand, I, I want 00:30:41.560 --> 00:30:48.040 to invite them in if they were to join our team and, and to be able to see like how we talk to each 00:30:48.040 --> 00:30:54.140 other throughout the day. We Marco Polo each other. We, uh, if anybody doesn't know what that is, it's, 00:30:54.520 --> 00:31:00.520 I love it because you can record a video anytime and then you can watch it. So it's not like sending up a 00:31:00.520 --> 00:31:09.820 zoom. So we created all these ways to keep in touch with each other. Um, but really the nice thing about 00:31:09.820 --> 00:31:17.900 social media is that it's much more vulnerable than in person because you have kind of this anonymity 00:31:17.900 --> 00:31:24.900 and you can always run away if you get embarrassed. And so when you have that vulnerability with other 00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:30.100 people, that's what's the, the kickstart to authentic relationships. So you're vulnerable 00:31:30.100 --> 00:31:37.560 and you share, and then, um, and then you see that people can be trusted with your life and with your 00:31:37.560 --> 00:31:44.340 thoughts and honoring and respectful and, and that you have their confidence and, and you can see 00:31:44.340 --> 00:31:50.720 people's heart for God in, in their words and in their videos. It's, it builds relationship much 00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:56.760 faster than in person. I have built relationships in the three years, much faster than I ever did working 00:31:56.760 --> 00:32:04.940 at my network position for 10 because we worked, you know, and we were close, you know, I thought, 00:32:05.020 --> 00:32:11.680 but not like, not like this, not, not in the same way because you don't spend as much time together. 00:32:11.840 --> 00:32:16.240 Even when you're working in the same office, you know, you're behind a closed door or you only meet 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:22.420 for a meeting. Uh, but this is sharing life together online. And I think that's what social media does is, 00:32:22.620 --> 00:32:29.040 is to, um, build community that way. That's the goal of it to build meaningful community. 00:32:29.420 --> 00:32:34.280 And so we have the same goal. Yeah. You know, I use the phrase, uh, in online and social media, 00:32:34.280 --> 00:32:39.220 it's better to ask questions than make statements and the vulnerability piece. I mean, that's even a 00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:47.040 one up on that. It's, um, be vulnerable and allow others, uh, to dialogue to you and maybe even through 00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:52.680 you. And as a result of that, you know, understanding comes into play in a, in a greater way. And that's 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:58.220 where, that's where I think true conversations come in and online instead of us, you know, shouting at 00:32:58.220 --> 00:33:04.200 each other, um, listening to each other and through the, through the vulnerability, through the 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:10.620 patients, um, getting into true conversation. That's, that's awesome. Well, and that's one way you've, 00:33:10.620 --> 00:33:15.060 you've overcome some obstacles of, of trying to figure out what have been some of the challenges 00:33:15.060 --> 00:33:19.040 you've had to work through and doing probably one of the first digital churches in America. 00:33:19.040 --> 00:33:23.160 Well, and I'm all, I'm always asking people, Hey, if you had a digital church, please tell me, 00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:29.020 cause I want to know you going first isn't always the easiest, but I'm super glad that I did the 00:33:29.020 --> 00:33:34.700 obstacle. The biggest, the biggest gift is Facebook. The biggest obstacle is Facebook. And the reason why 00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:41.060 is because their algorithms, they're constantly doing improvements. Uh, you have to really, uh, 00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:46.980 have a fluid personality of being able to go with the flow as far as working in Facebook. 00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:52.800 So the biggest gift, like I said, they have two, over 2.6 billion people coming every, uh, every 00:33:52.800 --> 00:33:59.620 month. Um, but then, you know, if, if you've been doing online and maybe with your church or as a 00:33:59.620 --> 00:34:05.580 volunteer or as an online pastor, you know, like Easter for our churches, all the churches across the 00:34:05.580 --> 00:34:11.940 board were like, wow, we just had, you know, 5,000 people and we had, you know, 120 comments. And, 00:34:12.020 --> 00:34:17.320 and then, you know, two weeks later, I just had 12 people and one comment. 00:34:20.600 --> 00:34:27.800 I'm quitting. And I, I've been through it enough that I know that it will change as fast as, 00:34:28.160 --> 00:34:34.620 you know, your ups and downs. It's very much like that, but I have to keep my mind focused on the 00:34:34.620 --> 00:34:40.880 mission of who we are reaching. And just because it goes down, I'm, I still have a lot of people 00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:47.920 that I can invest time in. And so do you, even on, if someone's listening, you just have a personal 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:54.180 platform. You have a lot of people you can invest time in. And sometimes that's the hardest part, 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:59.940 you know, is to keep your mental toughness and your adaptability skills as a leader, uh, to understand 00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:06.820 that we can just wait a little while, um, and keep making Jesus the center of social media, 00:35:06.820 --> 00:35:11.780 and then it will change. So for instance, since Easter, our numbers have been way down and we had 00:35:11.780 --> 00:35:21.320 to really make a difference. So let's say two weeks ago, I was doing videos, uh, that had 12 views. 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:27.400 And then this week, all of a sudden we have 72,000 people walk, watching a three minute prayer video. 00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:37.060 And you're like, what just happened here? The Facebook, you know, opened up God bless Facebook, 00:35:37.060 --> 00:35:47.080 let everybody in. Uh, but that's, that just happens. And, and so the, the, the 12 people are important and the 00:35:47.080 --> 00:35:53.460 72,000 people are important. And, and so I don't use that as a gauge of success because there's 00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:59.520 always somebody that we can be, uh, discipling someone we could be caring for and someone we 00:35:59.520 --> 00:36:04.720 can be building community with. So, um, through, you know, all the means that Facebook gives us. 00:36:04.900 --> 00:36:08.900 Yeah. It's, it's interesting even, and I think you'll appreciate this. Do you, do you read 00:36:08.900 --> 00:36:15.100 Kerry Newhoff or listen to a bunch of his stuff? Yeah. Maybe a month ago, uh, May, he was doing 00:36:15.100 --> 00:36:20.800 a, um, it was an analog versus digital comparison. And so it was one of his articles. He had like 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:26.060 seven or 10 kind of falling under one column was analog. And it was like the old way of thinking 00:36:26.060 --> 00:36:32.640 the old paradigm. And then the digital was the new way of thinking the new paradigm. And so he had 00:36:32.640 --> 00:36:37.400 buzzwords kind of underneath there and all of them were good. Um, but like one of the last ones in, 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:46.160 in his gathering under analog was, was the word global and under digital was the word local 00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:51.140 and pastors kind of reached out and put them in Facebook group, the article on Facebook groups. 00:36:51.140 --> 00:36:55.400 And they were questioning and even some of the cohorts and trainings that I'm doing. They're 00:36:55.400 --> 00:37:00.420 like, Jeff, that's wrong. That's a typo. You got it backwards. We're much more global now before 00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:07.060 because the internet reach is, is so global. And I was like, no, you're missing the point of, 00:37:07.060 --> 00:37:13.880 of what Carrie's saying. It's, it's, it's, it's a local, it's an individual ministry now with, 00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:19.660 with online and the ability for us to empower people, to mobilize people, to reach their 00:37:19.660 --> 00:37:26.320 local areas, their local circle of influence, the people that are immediately connected to them. 00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:33.880 It's not, Hey, and I love the fact that you're 2017 reaching 45 countries. That's, that's awesome. 00:37:34.100 --> 00:37:40.420 I'm more excited about the individuals that you are now unleashing in different areas, um, in Colorado 00:37:40.420 --> 00:37:47.400 and other places, because there's an opportunity to multiply off of that in a great way. And so whether 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:54.400 it's the, whether it's the 12 or the 72, you get 72,000, you get to this place of, man, if we can, 00:37:54.480 --> 00:38:00.140 if we can keep building those individual relationships now to multiply. I mean, that's really, I think, 00:38:00.140 --> 00:38:07.280 where you see the gospel start to create a movement, um, physically or even digitally, uh, in the season. 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:13.640 So that's awesome. Do you have any idea why the video was 72,000? I'm just putting on my technical 00:38:13.640 --> 00:38:19.700 hat. Sorry. That's a really stark, like distant difference between 12 and 72 K. 00:38:20.060 --> 00:38:26.300 Well, it wasn't quite 12. It's probably more like 12,000, probably 12 people that watched live. 00:38:26.560 --> 00:38:27.080 Okay. 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:33.180 And then 12,000 people over. And then, but this was literally 72,000 that watched live. 00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:39.420 So that's what I'm saying. I have over three years tried to find the answers to that, 00:38:39.820 --> 00:38:45.780 trying to change around, like, was it a donate button or was it the time of day or was it the 00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:51.980 length of video or was it that we had captions or was it what I was wearing or the way my hair was or, 00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:58.980 or, you know, what caught their attention behind me or, or for the other, I'm not the only person 00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:04.120 that speaks at that's one thing I'm big about is just having a lot of different people. But really, 00:39:04.120 --> 00:39:09.440 I think a lot of it does just have to do with what Facebook is doing at the time. I know that 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:16.460 they were heavily promoting churches on Easter and on Christmas, Christmas Eve, uh, any kind of 00:39:16.460 --> 00:39:22.420 religious holiday, they will promote churches. I know that. Um, and that's probably why we saw such a, 00:39:22.420 --> 00:39:23.500 a large uptake. 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:28.780 So talk to me about what's next for, for Pursuit Church. Where, where are you guys going? Where, 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:33.020 where does this look like? Where is the digital only church here? Where is it growing to? 00:39:33.240 --> 00:39:38.120 I think I mentioned quite a few of these things before, but we are starting, I work at Northwest 00:39:38.120 --> 00:39:43.860 University and Northwest University has an online school. And so we're doing partnership to bring 00:39:43.860 --> 00:39:51.500 education to the world. And so we're offering, uh, two associates degrees and, uh, six bachelor degrees 00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:57.060 online through Pursuit. And so the biggest thing that we get requests for is education because of the 00:39:57.060 --> 00:40:05.260 demographics we serve. And this is a very small drop in that bucket of helping people to make education 00:40:05.260 --> 00:40:12.580 affordable and also to train up ministers. So basically the structure will be, uh, that they'll 00:40:12.580 --> 00:40:20.500 go to school online and then have an academic coach and do an apprenticeship through, uh, our church or 00:40:20.500 --> 00:40:25.440 through their local church or through depending on what their degree is. That's the great thing about 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:30.660 digital is you can plug a lot more people in because we have more categories and then, than just 00:40:30.660 --> 00:40:37.300 children, youth, uh, women or men. And so that's, that's a big thing. We're, we're working on our, 00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:43.820 what we call the digital plus, um, planting church planting where we're creating these micro communities. 00:40:44.180 --> 00:40:50.540 And so we're testing that. And then of course, uh, online Jesus, because I was a coach for, 00:40:50.540 --> 00:40:57.000 for pastors before, I'm still incredibly passionate about that. And so helping churches to, uh, build 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:02.000 community and disciple and care online and, and, you know, and I want them to be able to sustain 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:06.800 doing online church. And I know that's really challenging for people right now to figure out 00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:12.240 a way to simplify, to make it fluid and to build a team to do that. So that's, that's on my heart as 00:41:12.240 --> 00:41:16.280 well. Yeah. So, I mean, talk a little bit about that because I don't think you you've talked about 00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:22.880 online Jesus yet. Um, am I understanding right in the midst of this COVID season, you decided to write 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:30.140 and publish a book? Is that how this played out? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's, um, it is a readable 00:41:30.140 --> 00:41:35.780 in a, see how thin it is here. Um, readable in a day or an evening. I think several people have said, 00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:43.400 I read that last night, which is exactly what I wanted it to be. Uh, when COVID hit pre COVID 00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:49.780 after COVID and Jeff, you understand this, uh, churches were really questioning is digital 00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:56.360 ministry. Is that, or is online church? Is that real community? That was the big question. Is it real 00:41:56.360 --> 00:42:02.420 community? Then we didn't have a choice to find out whether it was or wasn't. And I'm just so thankful. 00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:07.880 It's what I've been praying for is for churches to have an online presence. Uh, because I really think 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:15.880 there's a lot of power for the local church, especially, uh, to stay connected with the people 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:22.460 that come to their church and then to invite others in that would be, um, using Facebook as like the 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:27.560 yellow pages. And it's easy to invite a friend to look at, you know, Hey, check out my church 00:42:27.560 --> 00:42:35.080 Facebook page. Anyways. Um, so yes, in 38 days, I wrote this because I was getting asked so much 00:42:35.080 --> 00:42:40.400 and I needed to duplicate myself. So this is really just online. Jesus is our story. And you can get that 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:46.100 on Amazon if it's helpful to you. Uh, but I think you'll be surprised. I go through the three, um, 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:51.340 you know, disciplines of building community and discipling and caring for people online and how 00:42:51.340 --> 00:42:58.160 to build care teams. And there's a lot of tricks and tips and ideas in there, uh, for you. And then, 00:42:58.160 --> 00:43:04.040 uh, I have a website you can go to for free resources too, which is onlinejesus.info. So. 00:43:04.040 --> 00:43:10.960 Honestly, like the, within this COVID season, you, you really, you hit the radar for me and it was 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:17.380 on the, I don't remember exactly what the topic was, but there were several, um, within the, the 00:43:17.380 --> 00:43:24.600 online digital online practitioners willing to, it's, it's, you know, that, that group, that church 00:43:24.600 --> 00:43:31.380 online group, online ministry group. Um, you know, I saw your name pop up on helping some churches 00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:37.460 cause man, those first couple of weeks in March were crazy. So many people asking and just, it was 00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:42.820 like, you know, I think collective, all of us, we were working 20 plus hours at some point, just 00:43:42.820 --> 00:43:48.840 trying to help as many as, as at least in my camp we could. And, um, and I remember looking and I was 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:53.840 seeing like Angela Craig and I'm like, I don't know who that is. And just watching some of the feedback 00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:58.180 you were giving, I'm like, that's really good. Like she's, I don't know who that is, but she's 00:43:58.180 --> 00:44:02.580 intelligent. She's smart. She's responding well with that. I love how she handled that. 00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:07.740 And, uh, it was funny a couple of times, sometimes I'll like jump on afterwards and just kind of help 00:44:07.740 --> 00:44:12.240 firm up some things. And this is probably going to sound the ego. I really don't mean it that way. 00:44:12.380 --> 00:44:15.860 But when you responded, I'm like, yeah, I don't need to worry about that. She's, she's got it covered. 00:44:15.980 --> 00:44:20.440 She'll, she'll keep tapped in. And so, you know, a lot of the, the, the, and with the book, a lot of 00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:25.040 these resources and guidance, you're able to help physical churches even wrestle within the season of how to 00:44:25.040 --> 00:44:31.020 better understand Facebook and online has truly been awesome. I've loved seeing the church grow 00:44:31.020 --> 00:44:35.500 through this and even getting some awareness of what you're doing with, with pursuit church 00:44:35.500 --> 00:44:41.280 has been awesome. Really, really, really good. Well, let me ask this because, because I'm, you know, 00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:46.160 I mean, literally my job with Stadia as director of digital church planting, my job is to literally 00:44:46.160 --> 00:44:52.760 carbon copy you. So you, you wrote this into a book form, which I love, and I'm going to get the book, 00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:58.640 buy it and, and, and read it. But the, the, the challenge is also, in addition to, you know, 00:44:58.740 --> 00:45:04.520 carbon copying yourself into a book, I want to figure out like, what's the formula? How do I get 00:45:04.520 --> 00:45:13.540 people to start to understand Facebook, YouTube, virtual reality, video games, understand some of 00:45:13.540 --> 00:45:19.440 these digital platforms differently and start to look at some of the relationships that could be built in 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:25.060 the same way that you have, obviously with, with Facebook. Somebody wants to get started in, in doing 00:45:25.060 --> 00:45:30.920 a digital church. Walk me through a couple of their first steps. How would you, if you were doing it 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:37.760 today, knowing what you know, how would you start a digital church 2020 mid post COVID? 00:45:38.420 --> 00:45:46.420 Draw, draw every idea you have about what church looks like. Then talk to Jeff, because when I did 00:45:46.420 --> 00:45:56.440 this there, I was making it up as I went along. And it was really important to be flexible, to have an 00:45:56.440 --> 00:46:04.960 adaptive leadership style. And also just practicing intellectual humility, like saying, I don't have the 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:09.620 answers because you're not going to have the, if you want to have all the answers before you start, you're 00:46:09.620 --> 00:46:14.580 not going to start. So I would start with number one, connecting with people that are already doing 00:46:14.580 --> 00:46:20.680 this. And maybe it's, maybe it's not just digital only, but I would say the best thing you could do 00:46:20.680 --> 00:46:28.820 is to audit an online, a church that's doing online that you like their style. Cause every style is 00:46:28.820 --> 00:46:34.740 different. You could volunteer or apprentice at Fursuit Church Live and be part of the team and just 00:46:34.740 --> 00:46:40.940 be looking like, that's what we're doing now is anybody who has church staff that they can't, 00:46:40.940 --> 00:46:45.840 they can't train up. I'm inviting them to just come and be on our team. So the person can learn 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:51.320 and then take that back to their church or do it themselves. Cause that's important that we work 00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:56.720 together, recognizing like what group of people, what demographic is God calling you to? Cause you could 00:46:56.720 --> 00:47:03.440 hone into that just by what platform you pick. So Facebook might not be the platform for the people 00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:10.980 that you're supposed to serve, but there's, there are lots of platforms you can explore. So, you know, 00:47:11.060 --> 00:47:16.440 find, find people that are doing like-minded people. And you're in such a great spot right now, 00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:21.680 if you're starting, because when Jeff and I started, we didn't know each other. And we were saying how great 00:47:21.680 --> 00:47:28.640 it would be to know one another, um, at that point to know we weren't crazy for having these ideas. 00:47:30.640 --> 00:47:38.120 And, um, so know your demographic, uh, find the right platform, creating a care team. And I write 00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:44.520 this in the book too, but, uh, we did ours backwards. And I actually think for a digital ministry, this is an 00:47:44.520 --> 00:47:52.780 okay way to do it, uh, because you don't know who your people are until you start. And so for me, 00:47:52.780 --> 00:47:59.580 I was looking for people that were already engaged and, and obviously called to our specific church. 00:47:59.740 --> 00:48:09.120 Now for you, it post COVID or during COVID right now, um, you have more people in your site, 00:48:09.120 --> 00:48:16.080 in your site line because churches have been doing online, uh, platforms now for about three months. 00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:21.840 So there's going to be more interest for you to bring like-minded people onto your team. So I would 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:27.200 say, start having coffee conversations with people. Uh, and that doesn't have to be, you don't have to 00:48:27.200 --> 00:48:32.760 know them in person. They could just people, people that you have met online. So I think that's just the 00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:38.800 basic stuff. I really just remember to always put people before your program. I think that's what's 00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:46.080 made Pursuit Church Live successful is that we focused, um, you know, 90% of our attention on 00:48:46.080 --> 00:48:52.500 building relationships, not on producing, you know, flashy content. And there's a place for 00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:56.700 flashy content. I'm not saying there isn't, maybe that's what you're called to. It just wasn't my 00:48:56.700 --> 00:49:02.620 gift set. So know how God has created you and then surround yourself with people that are different 00:49:02.620 --> 00:49:07.480 than you. So if you're an entrepreneur or you're a shepherd or you're an administrator or you're a 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:14.600 creator, then you're going to need other people on your team, um, that compliment that strength and, um, you 00:49:14.600 --> 00:49:18.960 can find them out there. God will provide them. I'm sure he always does. When he calls us, he provides 00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:19.460 what we need. 00:49:19.640 --> 00:49:24.580 I mean, content's important and we talk a lot about it on the show, but it doesn't stop at the content. 00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:32.100 The content needs to lead to community. Um, otherwise, you know, we had talked James 1, 22, all the time 00:49:32.100 --> 00:49:37.880 where it's not, don't just be hearers of the word, you know, in this case online, do what it says in the 00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:44.080 real world. And so we need that, that physical execution. We need that, that community for us to, 00:49:44.080 --> 00:49:51.040 to exude. If, if all we are is, um, if the only place that we show our spiritual gifts are the fruits 00:49:51.040 --> 00:49:58.220 of the spirit in, uh, in virtual space, it doesn't show up in our real life. What are we? Like if, 00:49:58.220 --> 00:50:03.700 if I, if I'm a Christian in a Facebook group, but I, I, I'm a jerk to my wife and I yell at my kids all 00:50:03.700 --> 00:50:09.260 the time. I mean, I don't know that I'm really showing the, the, the level of, of Christ that I 00:50:09.260 --> 00:50:14.520 should be even in the physical realm. And so the challenge for a digital church is don't just be 00:50:14.520 --> 00:50:22.200 content, be content in a virtual environment, a digital environment that causes action physically. 00:50:22.200 --> 00:50:27.680 And so you're seeing that with, with the, the online groups, with the relationships, with the, the, the 00:50:27.680 --> 00:50:33.380 coffees, with having these face-to-face conversations, even, even digitally, but you're also seeing that 00:50:33.380 --> 00:50:38.580 in the micro locations and a number of the other things that you guys are working on. I'm, I'm so 00:50:38.580 --> 00:50:45.180 encouraged, uh, by it. And I, I even just want, want to speak to that because there's a season of our 00:50:45.180 --> 00:50:50.720 churches, uh, our, we're doing digital, they're moving back. Honestly, today, as I'm doing this 00:50:50.720 --> 00:50:57.040 recording, I've had three conversations with, with digital, potential digital church planters who are 00:50:57.040 --> 00:51:01.680 considering digital church planting because the physical church where they work isn't interested 00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:07.780 in doing online ministry. And so they're looking at potentially planting a digital church as a solution, 00:51:07.780 --> 00:51:14.160 uh, as a stopgap to, to get into do things digitally because their current employer, the current church 00:51:14.160 --> 00:51:18.840 isn't interested, which is, which is fine. Some churches aren't called to the digital ministry. 00:51:18.980 --> 00:51:25.040 Hopefully some, some will be. If, if that's you, like be encouraged. There are others out there 00:51:25.040 --> 00:51:30.260 like you who are, who are struggling, who are trying to figure this out. He's trying to figure out 00:51:30.260 --> 00:51:37.200 that balance. Um, and, and honestly, I was, I was offlining, um, earlier here with Angela where man, 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:43.500 2017 was a rough year for me because I felt like I was alone. We talked about it here on the podcast 00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:49.000 before, uh, and, and knowing I didn't know it at the time, but there's people like Angela who was 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:53.660 already working through some of this stuff and, and trying to figure it out, but being a front runner 00:51:53.660 --> 00:52:00.020 here in this digital only. So don't be discouraged. There are others out there. Um, jump in some 00:52:00.020 --> 00:52:04.740 Facebook groups, meet some people, have conversations through, you know, the stadia church planning 00:52:04.740 --> 00:52:10.360 Facebook group, the church.digital slash FB will include the links to it, that online digital 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:15.460 church practitioners, whatever it's called. They keep changing the name on me, that group. Um, 00:52:15.700 --> 00:52:19.880 you know, there, there's, there's plenty of opportunities to meet people in the dialogue. 00:52:20.300 --> 00:52:24.260 Nobody's got the, nobody's got the complete answers yet. We don't, we don't have the final 00:52:24.260 --> 00:52:29.300 solution. We're all figuring this out together. And so jump in those conversations and let's, 00:52:29.300 --> 00:52:34.020 let's work through this in one piece. I have been so encouraged by this, um, Angela, I had, 00:52:34.020 --> 00:52:39.820 had no idea like you were out there and, and moving down this road. So thank you for what 00:52:39.820 --> 00:52:45.120 you're doing through pursue church. Um, and some of the lessons that, that you're learning, um, man, 00:52:45.160 --> 00:52:49.800 just as we're landing the plane, um, any closing thoughts, anything just to kind of wrap up? 00:52:49.940 --> 00:52:54.680 I would just say that, um, digital ministry is like canoeing a mountain. I don't know if you've 00:52:54.680 --> 00:53:01.740 heard of that book, but I highly recommend it. And, and so listen to the call of God on your life. 00:53:02.580 --> 00:53:07.060 Surround yourself with people that will support you. You have two right here in this podcast 00:53:07.060 --> 00:53:13.080 that would be happy to help you and move you forward. And, and then know that God has something, 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:19.760 something really incredible for you. And it's going to look different than what I'm doing. And, um, 00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:26.860 that's the beauty of God's kingdom. So I say, um, bring it on, like don't hold back. And if you're 00:53:26.860 --> 00:53:33.800 working with another church that it's not, you know, that's not part of their, uh, ethos or their 00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:41.480 mission, that is okay. And you can start a group online on your own. Totally do it. Just do it and test 00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:48.220 it. And, uh, don't be afraid to stick both feet on feet in because, uh, Jesus will catch you. 00:53:49.080 --> 00:53:53.200 That's awesome. Well, Hey, so we're, we're going to, we're going to wrap on that. I've, I've, 00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:58.660 I've loved this. Hey, Angela, um, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, uh, maybe they've got 00:53:58.660 --> 00:54:04.060 questions on Pursuit Church or even Pursuit Church, how do they find information about you or the church? 00:54:04.060 --> 00:54:11.160 You can go to Pursuit Church Live on Facebook and message me. I'm there quite a bit. Uh, you can 00:54:11.160 --> 00:54:20.100 email me through our website, Pursuit, um, Pursuit Church Live or, uh, onlinejesus.info. I have all 00:54:20.100 --> 00:54:23.940 sorts of ways. So definitely get in touch. I'm happy to help. 00:54:24.060 --> 00:54:29.820 Typical online minister all over the place on every platform. That's awesome. Well, Hey, so, 00:54:29.900 --> 00:54:34.640 so we're going to wrap, um, very much. Thank you for this, Angela. Appreciate you, uh, jumping on, 00:54:34.720 --> 00:54:38.700 uh, for Angela. This is Jeff at the church, digital and stadia church planning. Thanks for 00:54:38.700 --> 00:54:42.560 jumping on this podcast with us and we'll see you next time here at the show. Y'all have a good day.