WEBVTT 00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:04.820 Episode 82 of the Church Digital Podcast, once again, powered by Stadia Church Planting. 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:05.520 Jeff here. 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:08.140 We've got a really deep episode on this one. 00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:09.100 I got to say I like it. 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:10.780 I'm excited about it because I always say that. 00:00:10.860 --> 00:00:13.600 I mean, it needed a line, but I'm excited about this. 00:00:13.700 --> 00:00:15.980 But we're getting into a deep level. 00:00:16.060 --> 00:00:22.560 We talk a lot on the show about microlocations, and it's been a very popular topic in recent 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:27.260 weeks and months in this COVID season coming through as churches are interested in these 00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:29.220 watch parties and these microlocations. 00:00:29.220 --> 00:00:30.860 It's part of the long-term strategy. 00:00:31.400 --> 00:00:37.140 And what's really fascinating is that even in the midst of this watch party in micro, we're 00:00:37.140 --> 00:00:41.480 starting to discover that micro in itself, there's different flavors and there's different 00:00:41.480 --> 00:00:45.500 extremes of how microlocations can work. 00:00:45.860 --> 00:00:50.240 And so as we're talking about it, I don't know that a lot of the churches are kind of 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.720 understanding the complexities and the nuances of the micro. 00:00:53.720 --> 00:01:01.120 And so I wanted to really elaborate and try to explore more of what microlocations can look 00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:01.400 like. 00:01:01.480 --> 00:01:05.440 And so I brought in some people who are really familiar with the idea of micro. 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:11.060 So we brought in Stan Rhoda, who's on staff with New Life Church in Washington, D.C. 00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:13.620 New Life is no stranger to the podcast. 00:01:14.620 --> 00:01:17.120 Tom Pounder has been on the podcast a bunch. 00:01:17.240 --> 00:01:20.480 Jade Earhart used to be on staff with the church. 00:01:20.780 --> 00:01:23.860 And so New Life is definitely represented here. 00:01:24.260 --> 00:01:31.160 We brought in Tyler Sansom, who's with Church Anywhere Program, First Capital Christian Church, 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:34.620 and so also has a full history here with the Church Digital. 00:01:34.800 --> 00:01:39.000 What we've really wanted to do with Ray in tow, of course, as co-hosts, is we really wanted 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:46.080 to start to unpack what this idea of a microlocation is and how you can grow them. 00:01:46.540 --> 00:01:51.540 There is a desire, there is a need for churches to launch them quickly, but there's also desire 00:01:51.540 --> 00:01:52.740 to want to do it long term. 00:01:52.740 --> 00:01:57.920 And so what is the tension towards launching something quickly for today, because we need 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:03.100 to in this COVID season, but developing it into something that will work for you long term? 00:02:03.380 --> 00:02:06.380 And so that's the show, that's the tension, that's the conversation. 00:02:06.520 --> 00:02:11.540 By the way, I've already had multiple conversations already with other churches that are interested 00:02:11.540 --> 00:02:12.580 in doing this. 00:02:12.640 --> 00:02:17.880 So take note, if you're listening to this and you can identify, you're not alone, which 00:02:17.880 --> 00:02:20.660 is interesting, which actually leads to the other part of this intro here. 00:02:20.660 --> 00:02:27.500 Through Stadia, we're doing a number of cohorts aimed at helping churches grow digitally, 00:02:27.760 --> 00:02:33.140 combining the physical church and the digital church together into one singular focus, 00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:33.980 mission and vision. 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.880 We've, we're already taking 70 churches, 60 to 70 churches right now through this process, 00:02:38.880 --> 00:02:40.320 and it's going very well. 00:02:40.320 --> 00:02:44.760 We're spinning up another cohort that's starting in August. 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.920 And so if you are interested in your church coming together and going through a cohort where 00:02:50.920 --> 00:02:57.260 we're learning from churches like Church Home, like Saddleback, like Crossroads in Cincinnati, 00:02:57.260 --> 00:03:05.380 and getting to dig in to not only content, but being part of conversations with other churches 00:03:05.380 --> 00:03:10.520 and facilitators and huddles where we get to help guide through the steps and also help 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:15.640 with some accountability to help your church figure out how to thrive, grow, and multiply. 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:17.500 Yes, multiply digitally. 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:22.360 A lot of the stuff that we talk here with the watch parties and this idea of the microlocation, 00:03:22.760 --> 00:03:27.300 some help to actually get that executed at your church, we at Stadia want to do that. 00:03:27.620 --> 00:03:35.120 Go to stadiachurchplanning.org slash digital, P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L, and you can find more information 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:35.420 there. 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.460 So for now, let's get into the conversation. 00:03:37.660 --> 00:03:39.840 We've got Ray Diarmus, of course, co-host. 00:03:40.440 --> 00:03:46.100 You've got Tyler Sansom, who is engagement pastor over at First Capital Christian, I believe 00:03:46.100 --> 00:03:49.680 lead pastor now at a digital-only church called Church Anywhere. 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:50.880 I think that just happened. 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:54.300 And Stan Rhoda from New Life Community Church. 00:03:54.660 --> 00:03:59.400 Myself, Jeff with the Church Digital and Stadia Church Planning in a conversation that I'm calling 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.040 How to Grow a Microlocation. 00:04:02.180 --> 00:04:03.400 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:04.600 For you, I'm just curious. 00:04:05.040 --> 00:04:09.880 It used to be COVID season, and then it was like race season, and all that kind of stuff 00:04:09.880 --> 00:04:10.540 centered around that. 00:04:11.200 --> 00:04:14.200 All these seasons have really just boiled down to 2020 is nuts. 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:19.360 There's going to be a ring of fire, solstice eclipse, on like the 21st of July. 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:22.900 I just saw that yesterday, like a big ring of fire in the sky. 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:23.720 Because of course- 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:25.340 I don't even know if you're kidding or serious. 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:26.180 No, I'm serious. 00:04:26.440 --> 00:04:29.240 It's like once in every 70 years or something. 00:04:29.580 --> 00:04:29.940 I was like, yeah. 00:04:29.940 --> 00:04:30.800 Sauron emergence. 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:31.900 That's awesome, man. 00:04:32.060 --> 00:04:33.480 Oh my gosh. 00:04:33.940 --> 00:04:40.380 I saw the asteroid that's coming to Earth that's going to narrowly- 00:04:40.380 --> 00:04:41.320 It's medium-sized, yeah. 00:04:41.900 --> 00:04:46.880 Yeah, I mean, at some point, I'm waiting for the seventh angel to come out and pour his 00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:50.540 bowl out on the, you know, in time, I guess. 00:04:50.660 --> 00:04:54.060 Dude, Kobe died, and then everything just hit the fan after that. 00:04:54.140 --> 00:04:54.960 That's where it started. 00:04:55.220 --> 00:04:55.520 It did. 00:04:55.520 --> 00:04:56.140 That's where it started. 00:04:56.280 --> 00:04:58.780 It started with Kobe, and then just straight down the hill. 00:04:59.280 --> 00:04:59.760 That's right. 00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:00.360 Wow. 00:05:00.660 --> 00:05:04.900 And in the midst of all that, you have scientists out in Alaska. 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:05.540 Nobody- 00:05:05.540 --> 00:05:09.780 No, I don't think anybody even caught this, but there were scientists out in Alaska, like 00:05:09.780 --> 00:05:12.980 mid-April, that said they found evidence of a parallel universe. 00:05:13.260 --> 00:05:16.240 And it just totally went completely un- 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.920 Like, no, it didn't even hit a radar for people. 00:05:18.980 --> 00:05:19.980 I'm like, they what? 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:23.380 People are like, oh, parallel universe? 00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:25.520 Yeah, well-tried UFOs, okay? 00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:26.420 Yeah. 00:05:26.860 --> 00:05:28.840 It's just another day in 2020. 00:05:29.540 --> 00:05:35.080 Yeah, that's the universe where Thanos won, and everybody's dusted, so- 00:05:35.080 --> 00:05:35.800 That won the world. 00:05:35.960 --> 00:05:36.300 Well done. 00:05:36.300 --> 00:05:39.220 Actually, that universe sounds pretty good right now compared to Earth. 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.580 I mean, aliens hit the radar there for a while a few weeks back. 00:05:43.660 --> 00:05:47.420 That became a big thing, so parallel universe I could get on board with at this point. 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:48.900 That's awesome. 00:05:49.340 --> 00:05:51.900 Hey, so, you know, Stan is- 00:05:51.900 --> 00:05:53.480 Why don't you give us a little detail? 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:55.120 Like, what- 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:58.940 So you said House Church Network, kind of layout here, because we're talking a lot about the 00:05:58.940 --> 00:06:04.980 House Church microlocations, kind of like that universe, talking about the alternate universe. 00:06:04.980 --> 00:06:08.060 We're talking about just that kind of idea here on the show. 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:10.160 So what actually- 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:13.580 What's the practicality behind what that looks like? 00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:20.480 I mean, really, behind it all is just a simple read through the Book of Acts and saying, 00:06:20.620 --> 00:06:21.600 how did they do it? 00:06:22.220 --> 00:06:26.860 And it just, every time I turn around, when you read through the Book of Acts, somebody's 00:06:26.860 --> 00:06:30.600 met at somebody else's house, somebody was saved at a house, a household was saved. 00:06:30.780 --> 00:06:35.680 Just over and over and over through the Book of Acts, there's something happening in somebody's 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:37.340 house with a household. 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:44.460 And so my take has started to become that, you know, maybe we're missing something in 00:06:44.460 --> 00:06:49.740 just focusing on a big Sunday morning gathering, although that may be part of the answer. 00:06:50.500 --> 00:06:52.040 But there's something we're missing. 00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:56.200 And so I've heard people, and I've even said this for the longest time, man, what would it 00:06:56.200 --> 00:07:00.000 look like if the American church could get back to Acts chapter two? 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:04.260 Just that, if that could happen all over again, what would it look like? 00:07:04.300 --> 00:07:10.920 And I think, well, then maybe we should probably be doing things like they did in Acts chapter 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:13.640 two, and maybe we would experience that. 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:19.300 So the practical side of it really is just reading through and saying, trying to do it as much 00:07:19.300 --> 00:07:21.240 like they did as possible. 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:28.200 So, you know, establishing, you know, certain rhythms that we see throughout the Book of 00:07:28.200 --> 00:07:29.180 Acts in the New Testament. 00:07:29.400 --> 00:07:31.820 You know, there is a gathering on Sunday, Acts 20. 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:35.240 We know they gathered on the first day of the week. 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:40.300 And just trying to align ourselves with that. 00:07:40.880 --> 00:07:41.100 Yeah. 00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:48.240 And it's awesome to me that you're using that Acts too as the foundation, the biblical, going 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:54.000 back to like the biblical functions of what the church is, and even trying to map that out 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.540 into some of the home environments with that. 00:07:57.760 --> 00:08:04.480 In this COVID season, obviously, we're feeling a lot of those tensions, obviously, because 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:10.780 majority of the world at this point has been locked in their home and unable to get into 00:08:10.780 --> 00:08:12.940 the physical gatherings, the gathering together. 00:08:12.940 --> 00:08:19.540 And so we're kind of been forced into a digital, a church online mindset. 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:25.240 Now, things are opening back up and people are slowly going back to the building, maybe 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:27.740 possibly some of them are still hesitant to. 00:08:27.900 --> 00:08:32.800 And individual states, individual cities, counties, individual churches have different 00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:33.860 philosophies in there. 00:08:33.900 --> 00:08:34.960 And so that's even interesting. 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:43.740 But hearing these ideas, and what's been fascinating to me is really seeing the different applications 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:48.220 for operating out of a home, seeing them kind of pop up here. 00:08:48.540 --> 00:08:53.560 Now, Tyler is through Church Anywhere is no stranger to that. 00:08:53.760 --> 00:08:55.740 Tyler's been, how long have you been doing Church Anywhere? 00:08:55.900 --> 00:08:57.320 Two years, 18 months? 00:08:57.400 --> 00:08:58.120 How long has it been now? 00:08:58.280 --> 00:09:00.660 Yeah, a little over three and a half, almost four. 00:09:00.820 --> 00:09:01.780 I didn't realize that. 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:02.840 That was longer than I thought. 00:09:02.920 --> 00:09:07.060 Okay, so you've been doing it, you've been doing it three, three plus years, you know, 00:09:07.060 --> 00:09:12.480 and obviously we've talked a lot with Jay Cranda, their home gatherings, we've had Elevation 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:15.400 on the podcast with their watch parties. 00:09:16.040 --> 00:09:21.900 I'm trying to even think, we've had Adrienne on the show recently with Northeast Christian 00:09:21.900 --> 00:09:22.400 Church. 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:27.360 She feels like so many conversations with so many different people with so many different 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:28.460 approaches towards it. 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:35.000 But the thing that I really kind of wanted to park on a little bit here is how much of 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:40.060 it is a, I feel like there's extremes to like the home gathering, right? 00:09:40.060 --> 00:09:46.780 Where you've got the, hey, we're just going to like press play on this Roku and watch this 00:09:46.780 --> 00:09:48.400 entire service type of thing. 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:54.720 And then you've got the fuller extreme, which is more of the volunteer who's leading is not 00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:00.900 just being hospitality, but it's more like pastoring and shepherding the environments, 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:01.400 right? 00:10:01.660 --> 00:10:05.480 You know, where it's, hey, I'm spiritually responsible for the 20 people that are in this 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:05.840 house. 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.960 There's a big difference between, hey, I can throw out some seven layer bean dip and press 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.340 play to I'm now spiritually responsible for that. 00:10:13.340 --> 00:10:18.740 So, you know, I'd love to even just kind of pick seven layer bean dip that didn't, I was 00:10:18.740 --> 00:10:21.320 hoping that we could get a lot, maybe the, maybe the audience laughed at it. 00:10:21.400 --> 00:10:22.200 I thought it was funny. 00:10:22.340 --> 00:10:22.760 I smile. 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:23.820 Okay. 00:10:23.940 --> 00:10:25.280 It's good enough in Zoom. 00:10:25.620 --> 00:10:27.940 So the, the audience would have caught it if they were watching on YouTube. 00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:34.760 So the, what are the strengths and weaknesses in a model of that? 00:10:34.820 --> 00:10:39.540 Because there are some churches that, that the, the watch part is the perfect tool for, for 00:10:39.540 --> 00:10:41.960 their context for, for a deeper model. 00:10:42.060 --> 00:10:44.860 I mean, there, there's another church for that at, at that extreme. 00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:50.660 What have been your learnings as we're going through things like this? 00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:53.560 What, why, why did you choose the path that you're on? 00:10:53.640 --> 00:10:56.440 What were the, the painful lessons with that? 00:10:56.560 --> 00:10:59.020 Tyler, why don't you start off a little bit here and tell us a little bit about church 00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:02.080 anywhere, maybe where it fits on that continuum. 00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:02.740 Sure. 00:11:02.740 --> 00:11:09.060 The spectrum from what you, what you just presented, we would fit on like the far end of giving 00:11:09.060 --> 00:11:13.660 volunteers freedom to become pastors essentially, um, to shepherd the people there. 00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:16.260 So they're, uh, they're not the hit play. 00:11:16.460 --> 00:11:17.820 Let's watch the service. 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:18.940 That's it kind of people. 00:11:19.540 --> 00:11:25.400 Um, I will say during this time period of trying to figure out how to gather, um, during 00:11:25.400 --> 00:11:34.280 COVID season, um, it's been strange because we've tried watch parties and the buy-in has 00:11:34.280 --> 00:11:37.660 not been nearly as good as what it is for church anywhere. 00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:43.400 Um, so we've just simply tried the, let's gather, gather people together to, um, to watch 00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:44.220 the service together. 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:46.940 They can't, um, come to the building. 00:11:46.940 --> 00:11:48.620 And so let's go do it in homes. 00:11:48.660 --> 00:11:50.660 And that buy-in has just not been there. 00:11:50.660 --> 00:11:55.580 Um, we've, we've got a few of them off the ground that are successful for the most part. 00:11:55.660 --> 00:11:58.580 People just weren't into that that much for our context. 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:04.440 Um, but it's bizarre because our whole church is based around, uh, these like tons of micro 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:05.340 sites that we have. 00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:11.640 So for us, the empowering part of, um, how we do micro sites within church anywhere, um, 00:12:11.640 --> 00:12:17.580 like empowering people to become pastors has led to more buy-in and, um, uh, a more successful 00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:18.780 long-term solution. 00:12:18.780 --> 00:12:22.680 Whereas I think these watch parties for us have been like a bandaid before we can start 00:12:22.680 --> 00:12:24.920 meeting again, um, in our, in our building. 00:12:25.380 --> 00:12:27.460 Hey, that, that's, that's awesome. 00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:29.960 Tyler Stan, how does that relate to, to you? 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.080 Where do you kind of fit in the continuum? 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:36.680 Um, man, I, uh, I actually am not really sure where I fit in the continuum. 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:43.620 Um, I probably just to the, to the inside in some ways of what Tyler is talking about. 00:12:44.180 --> 00:12:50.640 Um, it very much the same concept, I guess, in terms of shifting people from saying, okay, 00:12:50.640 --> 00:12:54.340 I'm just gonna put out the snacks and hit play and host. 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:58.080 And now I'm moving towards spiritual responsibility for people. 00:12:58.280 --> 00:13:04.700 The end result of what, what I'm trying to do, what we're trying to do is, uh, uh, wherever 00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:13.240 this fits, um, is really to get those house churches to view their, um, their primary responsibility 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:20.260 as, uh, the discipling of their people and to move them forward for those who are gifted 00:13:20.260 --> 00:13:26.100 and called and want to do it, to then move and multiply into new, um, into new house churches. 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:31.280 And so right now, at least with COVID, we've started with, Hey, if we can even get eight 00:13:31.280 --> 00:13:34.660 people together, if we can get 10 people together, let's do it. 00:13:34.900 --> 00:13:41.280 Which is part of where my question originally, uh, had on the Facebook post it sprung up was 00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:45.960 because when I saw the post, I was thinking missional communities tend to run. 00:13:46.260 --> 00:13:50.620 They're kind of that mid gathering, like what most of them tend to run that like 40 to 50 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:52.460 range or 30 to 50 range. 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:55.520 And so it's kind of like this high end small group kind of a thing. 00:13:56.100 --> 00:14:00.980 And so somewhere around in there, uh, we've just said, or I've just said, Hey, how do we 00:14:00.980 --> 00:14:08.000 actually do disciple making in a house church in a, in a house, call it a church, um, and, 00:14:08.060 --> 00:14:13.660 and develop people to the point where they are also hearing the voice of God and they are 00:14:13.660 --> 00:14:18.220 obeying in the mission to make disciples that is now beginning to impact their neighborhood, 00:14:18.420 --> 00:14:19.580 their schools, their whatever. 00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:24.000 Uh, and so I, I don't know where that lands on the continuum exactly. 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.580 Uh, but yeah, maybe that's where some of this conversation will lead us. 00:14:27.680 --> 00:14:31.600 We'll get better clarity on that, but that's, that's what we are trying to accomplish. 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:38.900 When I say house church, I'm thinking disciple making movement, um, is what is, what is in 00:14:38.900 --> 00:14:40.880 my, um, is what we're aiming at. 00:14:41.160 --> 00:14:41.560 Yeah. 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:45.680 And, and I, I would, I would probably suggest that's, I think that's in the heart of a lot, 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:50.140 a lot of churches where I think they're trying to figure out, I know several that I've talked 00:14:50.140 --> 00:14:56.140 to it just in the, in the past week where they're seeing an opportunity and they're wanting to 00:14:56.140 --> 00:15:05.300 move to a, a neighborhood disciple making discipleship apprenticeship centric model, uh, 00:15:05.300 --> 00:15:08.760 of empowering people to be on, on personal mission towards that. 00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:13.400 Um, there's, there's a lot of, and where I would love to maybe park out towards the end 00:15:13.400 --> 00:15:16.120 of this is how, how does, how does that actually happen? 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:21.820 You know, there was a particular church, um, yesterday I was talking with and it was there, 00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:26.760 uh, you know, I may have said in the conversation, but it's like the, uh, the lead pastor wanted 00:15:26.760 --> 00:15:31.780 to spin it up, wanted to, to do these, uh, to do the, the neighborhood stuff. 00:15:31.940 --> 00:15:35.020 If we're not able to get into the building, there's, there's a lot of delay that we're 00:15:35.020 --> 00:15:35.200 failing. 00:15:35.280 --> 00:15:37.380 We need to get to the neighborhoods as soon as possible. 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:43.760 And, uh, and the church was looking at the mindset of, okay, how do we set up these discipleship 00:15:43.760 --> 00:15:47.560 centric and empower these and train these and get all these people going and we need to do 00:15:47.560 --> 00:15:48.540 it in two and a half weeks. 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:53.920 Um, and that's not, I don't know that you can mic disciple making. 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:59.920 I think it's more of a crockpot approach and it was, was really interesting even helping the 00:15:59.920 --> 00:16:06.480 church kind of realize, Hey, you may need to be more on the watch party for the short term, 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:14.040 um, just to kind of get onboarded, learn some lessons and start to use the watch party, you 00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:19.540 know, with your bean dip as the beginning to kind of grow and develop deeper down that, 00:16:19.680 --> 00:16:20.440 that pathway. 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.860 Now, some churches, they're only looking for the watch party because it's a short term. 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:30.980 Um, Tyler, like when, or both you guys, when you started out, did you start at the disciple 00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:38.480 making the, the heavy end, uh, of, of the spectrum or did you start earlier and grow? 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:39.820 Like what was the growth process? 00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:40.620 Either you guys go. 00:16:40.900 --> 00:16:45.340 Um, for, for us, we started with, um, somewhere in the middle. 00:16:45.700 --> 00:16:51.100 So it was a watch, it was a watch party with the idea of doing small groups attached to 00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:51.300 it. 00:16:51.760 --> 00:16:52.820 Um, that's how we started. 00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:57.820 Um, but we didn't have like a growth track or anything like that, that we wanted to, um, 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.760 send people through next steps or really any plan for like multiplication or any of that. 00:17:03.260 --> 00:17:08.700 Um, it wasn't until like probably a year and a half into it that we were like, okay, this 00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:09.960 is starting to work a little bit. 00:17:10.040 --> 00:17:11.140 We've got to figure this out. 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.380 And that's when we really sat down to, to, to start looking at, like, how can we continue 00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:18.920 to empower people that maybe have never even been to our church before? 00:17:19.460 --> 00:17:24.700 Um, how can we empower someone that's only been to a microsite or online to become, um, 00:17:24.700 --> 00:17:26.620 a fully functioning disciple of Christ? 00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:28.700 So, but we didn't start that way. 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:29.620 It was somewhere in the middle. 00:17:29.620 --> 00:17:36.060 Um, well, I mean, uh, with us up at, up at new life, it started about four years ago or 00:17:36.060 --> 00:17:42.660 so we'd wrestled with the idea of discipleship and making disciples for quite a while. 00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:49.620 Um, our theory, our practice at the time was, uh, everybody needs to be in a life group. 00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:54.780 Um, so the primary next step for, in many cases out of Sunday morning was get into a group, 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:56.320 get into a group, get into a group. 00:17:57.100 --> 00:18:02.620 Um, and in Northern Virginia for whatever that's worth, um, there seem to be a lot of churches 00:18:02.620 --> 00:18:07.180 that struggle with life groups in Northern Virginia, partly because there are a lot of, 00:18:07.180 --> 00:18:15.420 um, super, super professional type people, government type people who are working 60, 70, 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:23.560 80 hours a week, you know, um, high level FBI guys, DOD, um, other three letter organization, 00:18:23.560 --> 00:18:29.260 uh, represented at our church, uh, secret service, uh, those kinds of people. 00:18:29.900 --> 00:18:34.680 And, uh, so they go to work for 60, 70, 80 hours a week, protecting the president, protecting 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.420 the country, protecting the vice president. 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:42.180 And then you, they show up on Sunday looking for a refresh and all they hear is, hey, you 00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:42.860 missed group. 00:18:43.340 --> 00:18:44.980 Uh, and now they feel guilty. 00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:49.520 And it just seemed like we were really struggling through, um, trying to get people in groups. 00:18:49.520 --> 00:18:54.360 And so we started in on a journey of just kind of reading, uh, the new Testament and staff 00:18:54.360 --> 00:18:57.400 meeting and just asking the question, what's it tell us about disciple making? 00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:59.000 What's it tell us about disciple making? 00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:05.200 And about two, two and a half years ago, um, God introduced us to a couple of guys who 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:09.320 had their hands and, um, kind of in disciple making movement around the globe. 00:19:09.320 --> 00:19:11.180 And we started learning some things from them. 00:19:11.340 --> 00:19:16.920 And for us really where the whole thing for us changed was whenever we started getting our 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:23.940 hands around, uh, reproducible, um, simple and reproducible tools that anybody could use. 00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:29.260 A secret service guy could use these tools while he's on a break, um, with the buddy that he's 00:19:29.260 --> 00:19:30.100 been trying to reach. 00:19:30.100 --> 00:19:34.500 And we wanted to take those tools and get them into the hands of as many people as possible 00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:36.560 and start training as many people as possible. 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.640 And so really that was kind of the process for us. 00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:42.560 It was just this reading and praying and asking and seeking. 00:19:43.100 --> 00:19:47.920 And then some of that led to trying to up our game in life groups when we were at a point 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:50.580 where we were like, maybe we should just scrap life groups. 00:19:50.780 --> 00:19:53.220 Like we, we don't see how they're working here. 00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:58.180 Like maybe we just shouldn't do them because we can't, we were a church at the time of 1500 00:19:58.180 --> 00:19:59.760 people and we had 30 life groups. 00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:04.740 We just couldn't, it was like, man, where we can't get their work in long hours. 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:07.880 Then they need a soccer game and now they feel guilty because they miss group. 00:20:08.020 --> 00:20:10.340 It just was this weird dynamic. 00:20:10.340 --> 00:20:15.740 And so, uh, we started getting our hands on some tools and said, okay, now how do we train 00:20:15.740 --> 00:20:19.160 people to actually go out and share their story? 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:21.380 What God's doing in their life, share the gospel. 00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:22.940 How do we train them how to do that? 00:20:23.020 --> 00:20:24.460 Let's get some of these things going. 00:20:24.460 --> 00:20:31.140 And for us, where we get toward, uh, life groups now or house church now or whatever really 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:35.340 is the end result of saying, here's some really intentional tools we can give to anybody, 00:20:35.460 --> 00:20:38.000 no matter where they're at, they can reproduce with their neighbors, their 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:39.900 friends, their coworkers, wherever they are. 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.640 And that's kind of been the transformation for us, um, moving us in that direction. 00:20:46.100 --> 00:20:49.160 Stan, that's really intriguing to me because, you know, obviously you guys are looking to 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.120 break free of just kind of set church, right? 00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:56.580 Like not just Sunday morning and not just small group, because obviously people have crazy 00:20:56.580 --> 00:21:00.180 schedules and can't really comply with that kind of schedule that the church would set 00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:00.600 for them. 00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:03.620 So get, get a little more specific, dig in there for us. 00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:08.080 Like what are some of those tools that you're really arming them with so that they can kind 00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:11.700 of, I guess, take ownership of their own spiritual development, which I think is great. 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:12.040 Yeah. 00:21:12.040 --> 00:21:17.960 So, uh, I won't, I won't, uh, plug, forge in too much here with some of the stuff I'm doing, 00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:23.540 but, uh, one of the things we say is we want, um, we desperately, well, here, here's where we 00:21:23.540 --> 00:21:23.700 started. 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:25.300 We started with the definition of a disciple. 00:21:25.300 --> 00:21:29.660 After wrestling with it, we said, okay, we believe a disciple is John 10, 27. 00:21:29.820 --> 00:21:32.420 It's somebody who hears the voice of the shepherd and follows. 00:21:32.520 --> 00:21:33.720 They hear the voice of God and obey. 00:21:34.060 --> 00:21:38.480 So if I can hear the voice of God through scripture, through prayer, through whatever 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:40.960 things I am doing, I can take that. 00:21:41.060 --> 00:21:45.680 And here's a couple of tools to now train somebody else to do the exact same thing. 00:21:45.820 --> 00:21:50.360 Uh, so we talk a lot about something called the master plan of surrender, uh, where we talk 00:21:50.360 --> 00:21:56.060 about becoming a master swordsman, um, becoming very acquainted with scripture, uh, a master 00:21:56.060 --> 00:21:56.740 prayer warrior. 00:21:56.740 --> 00:22:00.240 We are training people to be, uh, to daily abide in Christ. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.700 We are pressing them for more than five minutes a day. 00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:05.380 We're getting away from you versions versus the day. 00:22:05.380 --> 00:22:11.040 Like how do we get into three chapters, five chapters, 10 chapters, and just own, own scripture. 00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:12.880 And there are people that'll take that step with us. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.080 And there are some people that are back on that life group track of like, I don't have 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:18.200 time for that right now. 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:20.600 Um, but walking people through that. 00:22:20.600 --> 00:22:26.700 And then the last part of the master plan of surrender is a master trainer where we want 00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:31.220 not only them to be able to, to hear God's voice and obey, to read scripture daily, to 00:22:31.220 --> 00:22:35.860 pray daily, but then actually be able to train somebody else how to do the exact same thing. 00:22:36.100 --> 00:22:41.100 So then once they have the tools and they're doing it and they see God start to work in 00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:44.300 their life and they're taking steps of obedience and God's doing something with them. 00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:49.000 Now we can hand them three more people or five more people, or they can go and find those 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.980 other people, neighbors, friends, whoever, and they can replicate that. 00:22:53.180 --> 00:22:58.100 They can now share the tool, how they got to where they are, and they can pass that. 00:22:58.100 --> 00:22:59.600 They can pass it along to somebody else. 00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:05.500 So simple tools along the way, but one of them, uh, is master, uh, master plan of surrender, 00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:08.800 master prayer warrior, master swordsman, master trainer. 00:23:08.800 --> 00:23:12.880 We want every disciple to be able to do those three things, abide daily and tell somebody else 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:13.880 how to do the same. 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:18.720 If I can hear God's voice and obey, I can, I can show somebody else how to hear God's voice 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:19.220 and obey. 00:23:19.340 --> 00:23:23.720 And that's where we think, that's where we think and believe movement, um, in a disciple 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.020 making context will happen. 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:26.140 That that's awesome. 00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:31.080 But, but what's interesting, even beyond your, your, your three pillars or your three steps 00:23:31.080 --> 00:23:33.560 there, small groups was a lid. 00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:38.440 I mean, the way, the way you're describing it, the, the one hour I've, I've been parts 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:42.600 of, of churches I've consulted, I've been on church staffs and we've talked about, you 00:23:42.600 --> 00:23:45.440 know, Ed Stetzer talks about, Hey, we need a third thing. 00:23:45.780 --> 00:23:51.000 He's, he said that on the podcast, like church, weekend services, small groups, like we really 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.880 can't get to being people being on mission without a third thing. 00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:59.620 I've been in church environments where, where, you know, leadership teams and navigation teams 00:23:59.620 --> 00:24:04.100 have said to me, Hey, you know, what's more important, disciple making or, or, or small 00:24:04.100 --> 00:24:08.380 groups, because we can't expect our people to give another third hour. 00:24:08.540 --> 00:24:13.280 We can only expect two hours of the service hour and either a small group or disciple making. 00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:15.020 What do you think is more important than that? 00:24:15.020 --> 00:24:16.060 No, I have an answer to that. 00:24:16.060 --> 00:24:20.200 I have answers to that, that I probably can't say on the air, but what's, what's interesting 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:28.200 to me is your spin at this is, is abandoned, let go of the thing that possibly was working 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:33.400 because you're really more interested in, in getting to the, this disciple making angle 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:38.040 as opposed to the, the community of, of, of that. 00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:40.860 Stan, do you want to like even just dive into that a little bit? 00:24:41.100 --> 00:24:43.240 Why, why, why is small groups of lid? 00:24:43.560 --> 00:24:47.360 There were definitely some small groups that we would say they accomplished what we wanted 00:24:47.360 --> 00:24:48.180 them to accomplish. 00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:53.360 And there were many that absolutely became a lid when we would do the hard work of saying, 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:55.780 okay, which groups are actually thriving? 00:24:56.280 --> 00:24:57.420 They're on mission. 00:24:57.560 --> 00:24:58.660 They're doing the stuff we want. 00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:00.700 I mean, the numbers would go down from 30. 00:25:00.700 --> 00:25:04.920 We could find five that we really thought had it going on. 00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:10.960 And out of a church of 1500 in Northern Virginia, where there's 3.2 million lost people in our 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:15.240 backyard, five groups to get it is not, is not good enough. 00:25:15.580 --> 00:25:16.500 It's not going to cut it. 00:25:16.580 --> 00:25:19.400 That doesn't make a dent in our darkness out here. 00:25:19.580 --> 00:25:25.400 And so we had to really wrestle with, um, with that part of it and say, okay, in many ways, 00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:26.360 small groups are a lid. 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.800 So we either need to figure out how to do groups better, or we need to, we need to do something 00:25:30.800 --> 00:25:31.240 differently. 00:25:31.820 --> 00:25:37.660 I, I see potential for the house churches to become the place where all of this takes 00:25:37.660 --> 00:25:37.960 place. 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:42.620 Not only are they finding their community within the studies and because I mean, within it, 00:25:42.620 --> 00:25:46.780 there are studies and stuff that come along with it and there's DBS and there's all these 00:25:46.780 --> 00:25:51.700 things, um, but they get their community within it, but they're also living together on mission, 00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:53.800 specifically the mission to make disciples. 00:25:53.800 --> 00:26:00.160 So now they're not only, um, not only are they engaging in, okay, how do we serve our school? 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.000 How do we serve a local family? 00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:05.800 How do we, whatever, but they're actually doing it from the perspective of, okay, where 00:26:05.800 --> 00:26:11.320 is God giving us an Avenue in to share the gospel so that the gospel is the light so that 00:26:11.320 --> 00:26:15.280 we can actually multiply and grow and, and, and disciple other people. 00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:21.180 Uh, and so I, I think maybe we have been trying to get our hands around some sort of a, a mix 00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:22.520 in the two of those. 00:26:22.520 --> 00:26:27.320 I'm not, I'm not really sure exactly what that looks like yet, but, um, but as we develop 00:26:27.320 --> 00:26:32.080 them, we're trying to say that the house church could, again, you go back to acts two and you 00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:36.560 read through those, you know, acts two 42 to 47, or you can even start back up to verse 00:26:36.560 --> 00:26:39.700 36 and you get those healthy functions of a church. 00:26:39.700 --> 00:26:44.900 And we'd say, okay, we, we don't want just somebody to, to your point earlier, uh, put 00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:46.240 out the bean dip and hit play. 00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:49.360 We want somebody to take responsibility for that community. 00:26:49.600 --> 00:26:55.120 And how do we get them to look like an acts two community in their living room so that 00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:59.400 there is, you know, worship happening, community happening, disciple making happening, evangelism, 00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:00.560 like all this stuff. 00:27:00.860 --> 00:27:03.200 Like, how do I get that out of the living room? 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:10.240 Uh, is, is really for us the difference and moving away from just, okay, I know this is a 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:10.980 hot button issue. 00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:13.520 Uh, here's your next Beth Moore book for the next study. 00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:15.480 Here's your next John Maxwell study. 00:27:15.560 --> 00:27:18.220 Here's your next, like, let's walk away from that. 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:23.380 Um, let's train people how to, how to, how to make disciples out of their house. 00:27:23.620 --> 00:27:23.820 Yeah. 00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:25.660 And I think that seems intriguing for a lot of churches. 00:27:25.660 --> 00:27:30.100 I think what a lot of churches kind of struggle with is how slow that is. 00:27:30.620 --> 00:27:30.940 Right. 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.100 And so kind of, and that's right. 00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:34.980 Like just being real, that's where a lot of churches struggle. 00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:38.140 Like, they're like, we want to, we want to grow, like we want to grow deep, but we also 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:39.780 want to grow wide and we want to do it fast. 00:27:40.180 --> 00:27:44.240 So what does this process look for you guys as far as time, just realistically, just to 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:45.740 say like, Hey, this is what we put in. 00:27:45.840 --> 00:27:47.500 This is the investment and this is what we've yielded. 00:27:47.500 --> 00:27:52.560 Um, realistically, it looks different for every single person we invest with. 00:27:53.080 --> 00:27:55.040 Um, there are some people that we invest with. 00:27:55.120 --> 00:28:01.080 I I've got a guy that I met in a Panera parking lot two years ago who was disconnected from 00:28:01.080 --> 00:28:03.800 God, raised Christian, but disconnected from God. 00:28:03.800 --> 00:28:05.380 We started a conversation. 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:12.540 He is now my student guy and is leading a house church, uh, that has, uh, multiplied into 00:28:12.540 --> 00:28:17.380 two more house churches and is about to make some trip to Indianapolis to baptize six people 00:28:17.380 --> 00:28:21.000 or something because of the connection that he's got, uh, through these house churches. 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.960 That was, that's one guy two years ago. 00:28:23.080 --> 00:28:28.000 That happened very quickly because of who he is, how he's wired, what God was doing with 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:28.320 him. 00:28:28.700 --> 00:28:30.320 Um, partly his personality. 00:28:30.580 --> 00:28:34.420 And then I've got other people who get it and they're doing exactly what we want them 00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:38.760 to do, but it's a slower process because of who they are. 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.280 God wires everybody a little bit differently. 00:28:41.280 --> 00:28:46.520 And so out of the house church, we don't say everybody should be able to do what Gerald 00:28:46.520 --> 00:28:47.140 can do. 00:28:47.620 --> 00:28:51.820 But when I get my hands on a Gerald, I want to push him as far as I can, as quickly as 00:28:51.820 --> 00:28:55.200 I can, because he's, he's a, what we call a super spreader. 00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:58.640 Like that dude, that dude's going to do a bunch and it's going to be awesome. 00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:05.120 Uh, but the reality is, um, that even, even, uh, Paul writes, uh, in, in the book of Acts 00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:07.480 a lot about spending a lot of time with people. 00:29:07.760 --> 00:29:10.140 And sometimes it does just need to slow down. 00:29:10.280 --> 00:29:13.220 We have a tool we use to help filter people out. 00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:18.940 Uh, we talk a lot about fatzos, uh, people who are faithful, available, teachable, sendable, 00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:19.580 and obedient. 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:25.140 And when we find those people, we run with those people, everybody else, we, we say, Hey, 00:29:25.220 --> 00:29:26.700 keep coming, keep simmering. 00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:27.400 We'll pray for you. 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:29.180 Like be a part of what, what God's doing. 00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:33.700 But when I get my hands on a fat, so I'm running with them, uh, because they're, they're going 00:29:33.700 --> 00:29:35.820 to be the ones that push the movement forward. 00:29:35.820 --> 00:29:39.440 So we try to filter people, uh, through, through tools as well. 00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:43.060 So it's gotta be the first time I've ever heard someone say they're running with a fat. 00:29:43.060 --> 00:29:45.520 So just, just throwing that out. 00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:47.720 Cold blood, Tyler, cold blood. 00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:51.980 So, so looking at that, and I, and I know this is tough, right? 00:29:51.980 --> 00:29:53.400 Because even in the book of Acts, right? 00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:56.360 Like there's seven chosen, there's one Stephen and there's one Philip. 00:29:56.360 --> 00:29:57.720 And we don't hear about the other five. 00:29:57.800 --> 00:29:59.360 It's not that the other five aren't faithful. 00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:01.900 It's not that they're not available, trustworthy, et cetera. 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:03.440 You know, it's not that they're not those things. 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.080 It's that these guys are some of those super spreaders that you're talking about. 00:30:07.120 --> 00:30:11.160 And yet whenever churches kind of want to launch these things, they want more super spreaders. 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:16.380 So as far as like the people who aren't the super spreaders talk about that investment in that time too, 00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:19.060 because that's where it's like, there's a lot more of those. 00:30:19.060 --> 00:30:23.020 And how do we hone in and even deal with some of the slower growth that we see there? 00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:27.120 And so for instance, some of my house church leaders or the people that are actually helping 00:30:27.120 --> 00:30:33.280 me run with some of this stuff, I tell them to go as deep as they can with those people 00:30:33.280 --> 00:30:34.020 as possible. 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:36.660 As far as they will let you take them, you go deep. 00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.920 I want them to, again, go back up to the top of the thing. 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:41.680 I want them to be master swordsmen. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.600 I want them to be master prayer warriors, and I want them to be master trainers. 00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:51.200 If the only thing they get out of it, if someone comes into the process and they never start a house church, 00:30:51.700 --> 00:30:54.600 but they know their Bible backward and forward, they're memorizing scripture, 00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:59.420 they can tell their story to anybody who will listen, they're abiding with Christ daily, 00:31:00.280 --> 00:31:02.620 you can do a lot with that foundation. 00:31:03.620 --> 00:31:09.700 So I will say, just go as deep with them for as long as they will walk with you. 00:31:10.700 --> 00:31:18.600 I have to remind them periodically that Jesus walked with 12, and all 12 ultimately fail him 00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:22.160 completely when it counted, mattered the most. 00:31:22.760 --> 00:31:25.620 Few are restored, 11 are restored, and they run later. 00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:30.580 But I mean, we have to understand that there's going to be some people, not to the extent of 00:31:30.580 --> 00:31:34.600 a Judas, but there are going to be some people that don't walk that path completely. 00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:39.580 I have to be prepared to walk, in some cases, for years with some of those people. 00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:46.000 Now, do I invest time differently with that group versus the house church leaders that are running and doing? 00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:52.500 Yes, I, as the campus pastor, as the leader of the thing, yes, I invest my time differently for those people. 00:31:53.140 --> 00:32:03.140 But the reality is that we have to run with those that are going to run and hope that we can train as many people as possible to share the gospel, 00:32:03.300 --> 00:32:11.280 share their story, and to train them to be that three-tier kind of person that I was talking about earlier. 00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:14.920 I would love to actually hear this from both of you. 00:32:15.460 --> 00:32:16.700 How do you find these people? 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:21.360 How do you find somebody that's faithful, available, teachable, sendable, and what was the other one? 00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:21.780 Obedient. 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.020 Where do you find them? 00:32:25.460 --> 00:32:26.560 How do you grow them? 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:27.960 How do you multiply them? 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:29.340 Like, even start with the find. 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:31.700 I'm sure they're in your church, but how do you find them? 00:32:32.100 --> 00:32:39.260 So, this is, I don't know if it's a, I don't know what kind of gift this is, but my wife and I, we flip a lot of houses. 00:32:39.260 --> 00:32:43.080 That's, like, what we do in our ultra spare time that we just have all the time. 00:32:44.580 --> 00:32:51.720 But I've, since I was a little kid, I've been able to look at, like, old things and broken down things and see, like, potential in that. 00:32:52.380 --> 00:32:58.140 And I don't know why that that's a gift that God has given me to be able to do, but I can do that with people as well. 00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:13.620 We had Brad on this podcast before, and when I met Brad, he had no electricity in his house, was a drug addict, and was basically using what money he would have paid rent and electric for to buy drugs. 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:17.320 And I looked at him and realized, like, he's a people person. 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:22.780 Eventually, I'm, like, I want to do everything I can to lead this dude to Jesus because I can see potential in him. 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:31.940 And now he's leading, like, a microsite that's 300 men, and he's helped multiply that and start other microsites out of it. 00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:40.500 So I don't know how to develop that ability, but that's just something I've always had is the ability to see that in people. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:49.380 Beyond that, though, it's been a lot of just casting the vision behind Church Anywhere for us, and a lot of people have just approached us. 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.860 So I don't want to take credit beyond, like, one person. 00:33:55.060 --> 00:34:05.660 But most of our leaders out of, like, the 19 have just caught on to the vision of what we're trying to do with this smaller multiplication and more of, like, an empowering kind of faith. 00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:08.160 And they just want to be a part of it. 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:12.240 So once they approach us, then we can put them through our process of training. 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:14.380 Yeah, say something similar. 00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:22.380 I mean, we definitely, as a part of the process with our training, we train people in really specific questions that they can utilize. 00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:35.180 Once somebody's been trained how to abide in Christ on a daily basis and how to share their story and how to share the gospel, we give them a safe place to practice and to get comfortable with those tools. 00:34:35.180 --> 00:34:39.680 And then we hand them a couple of key questions to kind of help them get started. 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:52.140 For instance, one that we give people is we say, hey, whenever you find yourself engaged in a conversation somewhere, you know, maybe this question will be useful to guide the conversation towards something spiritual. 00:34:52.640 --> 00:34:57.420 The question is, if God could do a miracle in your life for you today, what would it be? 00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:10.700 And what's really interesting about that question and why I like it so much is because you immediately figure out who that person is and what they're looking for and what they want and the answer that you have to provide. 00:35:10.700 --> 00:35:17.380 For instance, I asked a girl that question at Panera one time, and I spent a lot of time at Panera, I'm finding in these stories. 00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:27.940 So I asked a girl at Panera one time, and she said, if God could do a miracle in my life today, he would bring my mother back from the dead. 00:35:28.040 --> 00:35:33.260 She was murdered a year and a half ago, and she proceeded to tell me the story. 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:37.940 And what I heard in that answer was she needs hope. 00:35:38.700 --> 00:35:41.340 She needs hope that there's more to this. 00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:49.500 And it gives me the stepping stone of the conversation, the spiritual conversation, to know how to direct it. 00:35:50.060 --> 00:35:55.920 I also discovered very quickly if that person is a fatso or not, whether or not they might be willing to walk with me. 00:35:55.980 --> 00:36:01.460 When I had the conversation with Gerald, it was obvious because I actually tried to scare him away. 00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:06.720 I was on my motorcycle, and he approached me in the parking lot and said, that's a nice bike, man. 00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:11.760 I'm like, yeah, we start talking, and I asked him what he did for a living. 00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:15.480 He told me, and I knew that when you ask that question, somebody's going to ask you what you do. 00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:18.060 And everybody's always scared when you say, well, I'm a pastor. 00:36:18.140 --> 00:36:22.380 They all freak out, and they run away like you're going to catch them on fire or something. 00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:26.420 But instead, I told Gerald, I said, well, what I do is I walk with guys. 00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:29.140 I train them how to hear God's voice and obey. 00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:31.300 It's basically discipleship. 00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:32.180 I disciple you. 00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:34.260 You interested in that? 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.140 And he went, yes. 00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:37.640 When can we meet? 00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:39.560 I mean, it was like that quick. 00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:41.060 I'm like, okay, well, I've got a fatso. 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.740 Now I know because I've asked just enough. 00:36:44.980 --> 00:36:46.620 I've told just enough that I know. 00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:49.720 So we help people identify that. 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:55.080 We say, you know, praying for your neighbors, praying for God to go before you in the conversation. 00:36:55.080 --> 00:36:56.820 And the reality is you may bring it up. 00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:57.820 You may share your story. 00:36:57.940 --> 00:36:58.820 You may share the gospel. 00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:01.520 And they may go, nope, not for me. 00:37:01.640 --> 00:37:02.620 I don't want anything to do with that. 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:03.500 Keep it to yourself. 00:37:04.580 --> 00:37:05.360 Now I know. 00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:07.060 I know that I can pray for them. 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:14.140 But they may not be in that particular part of soil that Jesus talks about as being receptive just yet. 00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:16.940 They're not the good soil that's quite there. 00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:22.560 But if I cast that enough times, if I share with enough neighbors, 00:37:22.560 --> 00:37:28.680 if I talk to enough people that I bump into out in my world, in my sphere of influence, 00:37:28.780 --> 00:37:32.880 enough soccer coaches and PTO members and teachers and whoever, 00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:37.840 eventually I'm going to find somebody that says, I want whatever that is. 00:37:38.140 --> 00:37:39.580 Whatever you've got, that's what I want. 00:37:39.640 --> 00:37:41.480 And now I have a fatso I can run with. 00:37:41.980 --> 00:37:44.300 It doesn't mean we give up on the other people. 00:37:44.860 --> 00:37:49.500 It actually means in our training, we tell people to keep a couple of lists. 00:37:50.180 --> 00:37:52.340 And one list I call the simmer list. 00:37:52.740 --> 00:37:53.760 And you're just praying for them. 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:54.560 And you're letting them simmer. 00:37:55.380 --> 00:37:58.340 And they just kind of simmer in the pot waiting for you. 00:37:58.380 --> 00:37:59.660 And you just keep praying and praying and praying. 00:37:59.780 --> 00:38:02.240 And hopefully someday they break down. 00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:02.900 Something happens. 00:38:02.980 --> 00:38:04.060 And they want to know more. 00:38:04.720 --> 00:38:08.200 But then on the other side of the list are your fatsoes, the people that are running. 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:09.060 They want to know more. 00:38:09.180 --> 00:38:10.140 They call you. 00:38:10.220 --> 00:38:10.800 They text you. 00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:11.340 They bug you. 00:38:11.420 --> 00:38:11.860 What's next? 00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:12.560 What can I do next? 00:38:12.620 --> 00:38:13.120 Now what do I do? 00:38:13.120 --> 00:38:13.800 I did my homework. 00:38:13.900 --> 00:38:14.180 Now what? 00:38:14.240 --> 00:38:14.580 Now what? 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:16.340 Those are the kinds of people. 00:38:16.340 --> 00:38:17.500 And those people are out there. 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:25.920 I think sometimes we, I think it goes back to my issue with kind of the build it and they 00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.840 will come mentality and people thinking they need to go find the pastor for the answer. 00:38:30.060 --> 00:38:35.160 As opposed to, no, actually God is preparing our people to go out and do this, to be disciple 00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:40.620 makers in Tyler's language, to be the pastor of that, their community, their group. 00:38:41.560 --> 00:38:44.200 God's got a lot of people he wants to release to do that. 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:49.880 And it's not just the Bible college educated seminarian at the top of the organizational 00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:50.520 food chain. 00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:53.260 So we've got to do a better job training and releasing people. 00:38:53.260 --> 00:38:56.640 So let's dig in there, Tyler and Stan, level of comfort. 00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:00.060 Like how do you get to that level of comfort where you're ready to release? 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:05.220 Because that seems to be scary because, you know, obviously like talking business, right? 00:39:05.220 --> 00:39:07.400 Like we're sending them out with the church brand. 00:39:07.540 --> 00:39:10.060 We're sending them out with you represent us. 00:39:10.740 --> 00:39:15.220 And it's that kind of responsibility that, that I think tends to freak a lot of people 00:39:15.220 --> 00:39:19.880 out in terms of, okay, they're going to be an extension of us, but how comfortable are 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:20.620 we with that? 00:39:20.660 --> 00:39:24.420 And how, how is that going to come back to bite us on the rear end if things go wrong? 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:30.620 After our training process, the last thing that they do is sign a 90 day commitment with, 00:39:30.820 --> 00:39:34.060 with us to be paired with a coach who has already been through this. 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:40.980 So that's, that's a little bit of a comfort thing for us to, um, one that we have their 00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:43.640 full commitment to, to be all in to doing this. 00:39:44.060 --> 00:39:46.440 Um, we've already, they've already went through our training process. 00:39:46.680 --> 00:39:51.520 And then two, we have a mentor that walks them through, um, starting microsite. 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:57.940 And so that's, that's helpful for us to, to think like, okay, not only are they reporting 00:39:57.940 --> 00:40:02.860 back to, um, our staff, but they're also have a coach that's like the training wheels for 00:40:02.860 --> 00:40:09.160 them, um, so hopefully they won't do anything that is off of, off brand of who we're trying 00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.620 to be. 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:12.980 Um, also I don't have a Bible college education. 00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:17.020 I went to school for audio engineering and mostly just to play football. 00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:23.140 So, um, they have just as much education as I do when it comes to that. 00:40:23.380 --> 00:40:28.940 Obviously I try to, to, to better myself as much as possible, um, within the scriptures 00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:34.520 and to be discipled by, um, my mentors, but I don't have that sheet of paper that says 00:40:34.520 --> 00:40:38.280 like, I'm holier than you or whatever that stands for. 00:40:38.420 --> 00:40:41.020 So, um, they're pretty much on the same playing field as me. 00:40:41.100 --> 00:40:46.620 So it's really that commitment, um, putting them with a coach and then like just getting 00:40:46.620 --> 00:40:49.200 over myself and relinquishing control. 00:40:49.580 --> 00:40:50.060 Yeah. 00:40:50.060 --> 00:40:53.660 I mean, for us, it's in many ways, it's similar. 00:40:53.860 --> 00:41:01.480 It's, um, it's recognizing that God, that if, if, if every follower of Jesus Christ has 00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:06.520 the Holy spirit, then the Holy spirit wants to do something through that person uniquely 00:41:06.520 --> 00:41:07.320 individually. 00:41:07.720 --> 00:41:10.340 I just need to help them have the tools to get there. 00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:17.460 So for us, I mean, the example of Jesus, it seems was to train a little bit and send 00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:21.360 them out and see what happens and then bring them back in and coach them back up and then 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:25.320 send them back out and see what happens, bring them back, get feedback, coach them up where 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:25.840 they need it. 00:41:26.140 --> 00:41:27.780 And they did this all the time. 00:41:27.860 --> 00:41:29.000 They'd be walking with Jesus. 00:41:29.240 --> 00:41:32.680 They get 10 feet away and all of a sudden they want to know which one's the best in the 00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:32.920 kingdom. 00:41:33.220 --> 00:41:35.780 They come back and Jesus has to coach them right back up. 00:41:36.380 --> 00:41:40.580 Uh, Mount of, you know, when Jesus goes up to the transfiguration, he comes back down. 00:41:40.660 --> 00:41:41.760 This awesome stuff has happened. 00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:47.000 Peter, James, and John are just like, dude, Jesus was like, uh, you know, this, whoa, do 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:47.880 you guys see that? 00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:52.740 And they're freaking out and they come back down and the disciples are struggling to cast 00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:53.340 out a demon. 00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:55.100 And Jesus is like, oh man. 00:41:55.220 --> 00:41:55.460 Okay. 00:41:55.540 --> 00:41:56.960 Well, so you guys have to pray. 00:41:57.080 --> 00:41:58.780 Now, if you're going to cast out a demon, you got to pray. 00:41:58.780 --> 00:41:59.360 We got to start. 00:41:59.500 --> 00:42:05.100 Like, it just seemed like Jesus didn't have the same, again, I don't know what it is, but 00:42:05.100 --> 00:42:12.740 for me, it's, it's just something about the American version of church to control an institution 00:42:12.740 --> 00:42:14.740 so that it grows a certain way. 00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.460 Um, Jesus didn't seem to have that. 00:42:18.720 --> 00:42:23.280 And so for me, if, if you were to step into a training for me where like, for instance, 00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.920 I walked through a tool on the great commission called the eight commands. 00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:28.420 We just walked through the great commission. 00:42:28.580 --> 00:42:31.740 We break it down into eight things that Jesus commands of us. 00:42:32.420 --> 00:42:36.300 Um, the very first one you do the very first week you'll leave. 00:42:36.300 --> 00:42:43.040 And your first homework assignment is to share your story of how Jesus has changed your life 00:42:43.040 --> 00:42:49.120 no less than three times with someone in your life, a friend and a, just go do it and see 00:42:49.120 --> 00:42:49.660 what happens. 00:42:49.660 --> 00:42:50.540 We are transformed. 00:42:50.540 --> 00:42:53.260 I believe we are actually transformed through our obedience. 00:42:53.260 --> 00:42:56.300 We're not transformed because we have more knowledge that comes our way. 00:42:56.380 --> 00:43:00.320 We're transformed when we obey, we hear God's voice and we just obey. 00:43:00.520 --> 00:43:06.400 We're not responsible for the result of that, but I am responsible for my obedience when God 00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:06.800 calls. 00:43:07.420 --> 00:43:11.000 So the very first week you're with me, you're going out and you're practicing in the field. 00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:17.900 What, what happens with, um, uh, uh, Jesus and the, uh, the Samaritan woman, she, she goes 00:43:17.900 --> 00:43:22.140 right into the harvest immediately after Jesus talks about all the stuff he does with her. 00:43:22.160 --> 00:43:25.060 And she goes immediately to the harvest and shares. 00:43:25.060 --> 00:43:31.240 And I think a lot of times we actually find Jesus in the harvest more than we find him in 00:43:31.240 --> 00:43:31.860 other places. 00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:36.140 We find Jesus in the harvest because we're walking in obedience doing what he asks us to 00:43:36.140 --> 00:43:36.440 do. 00:43:37.080 --> 00:43:41.700 Um, and so people, my people come back with some pretty interesting stories and there 00:43:41.700 --> 00:43:43.280 are some stories of failure and that's okay. 00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:45.840 Guess they're, they're going to come right back into group the next week. 00:43:46.220 --> 00:43:47.580 They're going to be picked right back up. 00:43:47.620 --> 00:43:48.560 They're going to be discipled. 00:43:48.580 --> 00:43:49.340 They're going to be trained. 00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:50.120 They're going to be loved. 00:43:50.180 --> 00:43:51.200 They're going to be cared for. 00:43:51.520 --> 00:43:53.760 Then we're going to go right back and do it again the next week. 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:54.800 And we're going to try it again. 00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.140 Then the next week out of that is, you know, is more. 00:43:57.620 --> 00:43:57.940 Yeah. 00:43:57.940 --> 00:43:59.020 Let's lean in there for a second. 00:43:59.180 --> 00:44:02.680 Would you, either of you mind sharing like one of those stories where things didn't go so well 00:44:02.680 --> 00:44:03.820 and maybe what you would have done different. 00:44:03.820 --> 00:44:05.880 Cause it's easy to point out like the success stories. 00:44:06.260 --> 00:44:06.780 You know what I'm saying? 00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:10.000 And I think everybody wants to jump on board with that, but I think a lot of pastors want 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:10.820 to hear, man. 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:11.140 All right. 00:44:11.140 --> 00:44:13.080 So realistically, man, we had some failures too. 00:44:13.460 --> 00:44:19.220 I mean, one of my failures to be honest with you was the lady I talked to at Panera who, 00:44:19.220 --> 00:44:21.520 uh, who I tried. 00:44:21.520 --> 00:44:26.680 I took a tool that I was learning and I tried to have the conversation, but when she answered, 00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:29.260 it didn't hit me until later what she was really saying. 00:44:29.640 --> 00:44:36.400 So that conversation ended super awkwardly as I tried to walk away from a conversation 00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:40.740 with a woman who was talking about how her mother had been murdered two years ago, a 00:44:40.740 --> 00:44:41.460 year and a half ago. 00:44:42.060 --> 00:44:45.000 Um, and, and it, it honestly freaked me out. 00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:48.020 I was like, okay, God, I'm trying to do what you want me to do. 00:44:48.240 --> 00:44:51.860 That's the first person that's going to respond that like, I, I don't know what to do with 00:44:51.860 --> 00:44:52.200 that. 00:44:52.460 --> 00:44:55.480 And then I had to go back to my guy and say, here was the answer I got. 00:44:55.540 --> 00:44:56.700 What do I do with that? 00:44:56.820 --> 00:44:58.320 How do I handle that? 00:44:58.720 --> 00:44:59.100 You know? 00:44:59.620 --> 00:45:02.280 Um, and, uh, that just didn't go well. 00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:05.740 That conversation never, uh, never went back to anything else. 00:45:05.740 --> 00:45:10.620 It never turned into, Hey, would love for you to come and be a part of some of our community. 00:45:10.620 --> 00:45:13.460 Uh, never turned into a, Hey, let's follow up. 00:45:13.540 --> 00:45:15.100 It just died right there. 00:45:15.120 --> 00:45:17.820 It was just like, Oh my gosh, what do I do with this? 00:45:17.820 --> 00:45:18.760 And it just fell apart. 00:45:19.460 --> 00:45:26.320 Um, but I mean, what better place to, to learn than, than out there actually, actually doing 00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:26.560 it. 00:45:26.680 --> 00:45:28.660 Um, so that, I mean, that was at least one for me. 00:45:28.700 --> 00:45:33.300 It sounds good at the beginning with the question, but man, that it died pretty quickly 00:45:33.300 --> 00:45:34.700 because I didn't know what to do with it. 00:45:34.700 --> 00:45:38.280 But yeah, I'm, uh, if you're familiar with the Enneagram, I'm an eight. 00:45:38.540 --> 00:45:46.020 Um, so for me to say, I would like to relinquish control in this is like the exact opposite of 00:45:46.020 --> 00:45:47.180 my actual personality. 00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:56.820 Um, so early on when we started micro sites, um, I had a really, really hard time with that 00:45:56.820 --> 00:45:57.420 specifically. 00:45:57.700 --> 00:46:01.440 Um, and so I'm, I was talking this big game about how like, we're going to empower people 00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.200 to, to pastor these people. 00:46:03.200 --> 00:46:05.620 And then I ended up being the pastor in every location. 00:46:06.140 --> 00:46:12.260 Um, so that was like an overall fail for like a whole year until I finally got over myself. 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:14.740 Um, so that was the first one. 00:46:14.900 --> 00:46:17.080 Second one is very, very much more specific. 00:46:17.080 --> 00:46:22.180 So we had, um, that you guys are familiar with, we have an orphanage campus. 00:46:22.180 --> 00:46:27.640 Uh, we do a microsite and orphanage and, um, it's a really awesome ministry now, but when 00:46:27.640 --> 00:46:32.440 it first started, we put together a team of people with a volunteer campus pastor. 00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:35.700 Um, all of them were huge personalities. 00:46:36.080 --> 00:46:42.020 Um, they're all really solid individual volunteers, but it would be like putting, um, like every 00:46:42.020 --> 00:46:44.420 diva in the NBA in a starting lineup. 00:46:45.160 --> 00:46:47.880 Um, and I don't mean that they're divas individually. 00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:51.420 They just all have really good, they're like five talent kind of people. 00:46:51.640 --> 00:46:53.760 And so there was no leader. 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:59.700 Like I threw this leader to the wolves and they were all, um, parents who had already 00:46:59.700 --> 00:47:01.080 gone through parenting. 00:47:01.080 --> 00:47:05.540 So like almost all of them had at least like the youngest kid was like a senior in high 00:47:05.540 --> 00:47:06.560 school that they had. 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:13.400 And so they went into this orphanage with one, um, a bunch of alpha dogs, uh, in, in a group 00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:18.660 and two wanting to parent these, uh, orphans who had been in the foster care system their 00:47:18.660 --> 00:47:19.280 whole lives. 00:47:19.340 --> 00:47:21.180 Like they would parent their own kids. 00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:28.880 And, um, I, I saw it, I saw it coming, um, and I didn't do anything about it and it did 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:32.280 not go well for like the first six months of launching this campus. 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:37.220 It ended up like just ticking kids off or ticking off the leaders because they wanted to parent 00:47:37.220 --> 00:47:43.400 them and discipline them and, uh, came to the point where it made us really reevaluate 00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.960 if, if we're keeping the main thing, the main thing. 00:47:46.180 --> 00:47:51.600 And so that made us change our philosophy a little bit on how we went into microsites in 00:47:51.600 --> 00:47:58.540 the first place, um, with the idea of less being about, um, like the structure of how things 00:47:58.540 --> 00:48:02.800 work and more being about making sure we present Jesus first above all else. 00:48:03.580 --> 00:48:08.700 And so I, like a big fail on my part and on sending them out and then them coming back 00:48:08.700 --> 00:48:13.180 and coaching the whole, like Jesus philosophy that Stan was talking about, uh, was when they 00:48:13.180 --> 00:48:14.700 came back, they felt beaten up. 00:48:14.700 --> 00:48:16.680 Like the kids hated them and they hated each other. 00:48:17.020 --> 00:48:20.980 And so, uh, we had to shift the mindset to keep the main thing, the main thing. 00:48:21.660 --> 00:48:21.760 Yeah. 00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:26.740 I mean, that's, it's keep the shift is, is so important with that because sometimes we 00:48:26.740 --> 00:48:34.520 get lost in other expectations, other ideas, other, this is what church is, even a, a, a, 00:48:34.520 --> 00:48:37.180 a minimal ecclesiology of what church is. 00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:38.220 And are we okay with that? 00:48:38.220 --> 00:48:42.560 And even conversations, you know, just recently I've had with the church that it's like, you 00:48:42.560 --> 00:48:44.680 know, Jeff, I don't know that our people are okay. 00:48:44.680 --> 00:48:49.760 That a pastor is leading and that not a non-pastor is leading communion. 00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:51.920 I don't think our people are going to be okay. 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.940 That a non-pastor is going to be baptizing. 00:48:55.200 --> 00:48:59.360 And so, you know, the, the, the priesthood of all believers, even some of that stuff, 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:03.540 um, there, there are still churches that, that, that are struggling with some of this. 00:49:03.540 --> 00:49:07.120 And it's interesting, Stan's kind of wincing, uh, in the view. 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:11.560 I can see it on zoom, but it's, it's, there are some churches that are like, oh my gosh, 00:49:11.560 --> 00:49:13.040 we settled that like 30 years ago. 00:49:13.180 --> 00:49:16.820 And there are some churches that are like, dude, that is still an issue right here today. 00:49:16.820 --> 00:49:21.460 And, and it's really because of the expectations, um, that we have walking into it. 00:49:21.460 --> 00:49:26.140 Put it in a digital context too, like now that all of our micro sites aren't launched 00:49:26.140 --> 00:49:31.460 specifically out of our physical location, like that's so much harder to, to manage. 00:49:31.460 --> 00:49:35.280 Whereas before, like I could send somebody out, try something, they come back, like they 00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:36.500 literally are coming back. 00:49:36.820 --> 00:49:38.780 I can send them right across from them face to face. 00:49:39.180 --> 00:49:43.760 Now, like take it to Rhode Island, which is where we just, uh, launched our latest micro 00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:44.060 site. 00:49:44.100 --> 00:49:48.120 Like I can't drive to Rhode Island and talk to Rick, the guy that's leading it. 00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:52.020 Um, so the best case scenario is we zoom call or text message. 00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:53.800 That's just, uh, you guys know how it is. 00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:58.960 It's a lot harder to get a feel for and coach someone just over zoom and just over text message. 00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:03.700 So the digital side of that makes it even more challenging, but it's also a chance to be 00:50:03.700 --> 00:50:04.880 more creative and innovative. 00:50:05.140 --> 00:50:09.520 You've got the opportunity to engage, uh, lacrosse long distances. 00:50:09.700 --> 00:50:13.640 Well, let's do this because, because let's, let's turn the table here because they're, 00:50:13.640 --> 00:50:14.940 there are churches right now. 00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:17.020 Um, and let's, let's figure out how to make this practical. 00:50:17.020 --> 00:50:20.640 There are churches right now that are wanting to do something. 00:50:20.740 --> 00:50:23.160 Their lead pastor saying, Hey, we got to figure this out. 00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:23.760 Yeah. 00:50:23.820 --> 00:50:29.340 We can do a short term watch party for caught three months, six months, maybe the entire 00:50:29.340 --> 00:50:34.940 2020 until we can get back into our mega buildings, our large venues and get back to a, 00:50:34.940 --> 00:50:37.080 a normal expression of church. 00:50:37.080 --> 00:50:38.120 But that's not today. 00:50:38.180 --> 00:50:42.320 So yeah, we could do watch party short term, but I got to believe there are churches that, 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:49.720 that are interested in, in forming a discipleship system coming out of this and having these 00:50:49.720 --> 00:50:55.760 micro locations, having these fat shows, um, running around, um, in, in new ways that are 00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:57.860 wanting to empower and mobilize these people. 00:50:57.860 --> 00:50:59.620 Tell me how, how do they get started? 00:50:59.780 --> 00:51:00.820 Point them in the right direction. 00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:02.140 Give me some practical steps. 00:51:02.560 --> 00:51:05.880 How do we go from nothing to developing fat shows? 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:08.080 Walk, walk me through some, some ways to get started. 00:51:08.080 --> 00:51:12.080 My recommendation would be to take the low hanging fruit. 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:19.300 Um, we know, we know that as followers of Jesus Christ, we are supposed to abide with Christ. 00:51:19.780 --> 00:51:25.860 And yet the research over and over and over shows that most pastors and church leaders are 00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:27.480 not spending any time with Christ. 00:51:28.020 --> 00:51:33.140 Um, and their time with Christ is primarily sermon prep, uh, for instance. 00:51:33.520 --> 00:51:40.600 So for me, I guess if I'm going to start moving the needle in that direction, I, I have to lead 00:51:40.600 --> 00:51:42.980 by, I have to be able to do that myself. 00:51:43.640 --> 00:51:48.820 So I think, I don't know who all is listening to this right now, uh, the prime audience here, 00:51:48.820 --> 00:51:55.440 but I have to spend time with Christ daily, not for my sermon prep, but I have to be in 00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:59.000 scripture being fed by it, being transformed by it. 00:51:59.200 --> 00:52:04.580 I'm getting to know Christ, to know and walk with God, to hear his voice and obey. 00:52:04.680 --> 00:52:05.820 I have to do that. 00:52:06.520 --> 00:52:11.520 Um, and then from there, depending upon your organization, um, my next thought, I guess, 00:52:11.560 --> 00:52:14.320 as a leader would be, you've got to influence your influencers. 00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:15.640 You've got to lead your staff. 00:52:15.720 --> 00:52:19.360 You've got to lead your, uh, your leadership team that direction. 00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:21.900 You've got to start putting the stuff out and lead that way. 00:52:22.460 --> 00:52:25.100 Um, and, and then you can start working it down from there. 00:52:25.100 --> 00:52:30.560 But I mean, at a super high level, I, I mean, I just think it's some of those, the little 00:52:30.560 --> 00:52:35.840 things that we've got to get right that I, I don't know that we have right right now. 00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:41.860 Um, and it's as simple as, as me spending time with God, uh, outside of my, outside of 00:52:41.860 --> 00:52:46.660 my sermon prep, being transformed by him and then sharing that with someone else and beginning 00:52:46.660 --> 00:52:49.220 to flow it down through the, through the organization. 00:52:49.540 --> 00:52:51.820 That's where I would start initially. 00:52:52.140 --> 00:52:53.100 Tyler, what do you recommend? 00:52:53.220 --> 00:52:56.380 I feel like I've asked you this question before, but if not, just tell me anyway. 00:52:56.640 --> 00:53:00.040 You, yeah, you guys have, uh, you guys have actually talked with Randy, our senior pastor. 00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:03.520 Um, he's a former college basketball coach. 00:53:03.660 --> 00:53:06.540 He basically runs our church like a basketball team. 00:53:06.860 --> 00:53:11.100 Um, so it's, it's fun to watch him do that. 00:53:11.100 --> 00:53:17.940 Um, and I can't imagine starting anything at all remotely close to like micro communities 00:53:17.940 --> 00:53:20.880 or anything like that without actually having a vision for it. 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.580 So I, I, I've been talking to lots of churches as well. 00:53:23.700 --> 00:53:29.580 Jeff, I know you and Ray have, um, during COVID-19 season, cause everyone's like, what do we do now? 00:53:29.700 --> 00:53:32.980 And a lot of their solutions are like what you've been talking about. 00:53:33.040 --> 00:53:34.560 Let's start micro sites right now. 00:53:34.620 --> 00:53:35.900 Let's start watch parties right now. 00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:36.520 Let's do this. 00:53:36.560 --> 00:53:37.200 Let's do this. 00:53:37.200 --> 00:53:43.340 Uh, but if you don't have any kind of vision for where you want to go, then you can't do anything. 00:53:43.340 --> 00:53:53.060 So, so many churches are wanting to start these, uh, these big projects that, um, are trendy right now, but none of those are short-term projects. 00:53:53.200 --> 00:54:00.500 And so without any kind of vision, without any kind of, um, clarity from the leadership, they're going, they're probably going to fail. 00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:08.580 Um, and so the first thing that a church leader, especially a senior pastor has to wrestle with is like, what is the vision of my church? 00:54:08.700 --> 00:54:13.940 And how does this big project we're going to have somebody take on, how does that fit within that vision? 00:54:14.380 --> 00:54:21.820 Because if it doesn't like, don't do it or change the vision, um, because that's, that's just, it's not going to go well. 00:54:21.820 --> 00:54:24.680 Um, that sounds probably really harsh. 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.000 I mean, it's grounded probably in a historical background. 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:36.000 I mean, I can even tell you in my life at the times where, uh, we tried to implement something like this. 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:43.880 It was, it was very hard and, and, and truthfully, and this isn't a, the criticism of the church, the church didn't have the vision for it. 00:54:44.100 --> 00:54:53.360 And so I was fighting tooth and nail for this, you know, your words, big project, this, this idea, this vision, um, leadership didn't back it. 00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:57.360 Leadership didn't understand it or wasn't in their vision. 00:54:57.520 --> 00:54:58.720 That's, that's not a discredit. 00:54:58.900 --> 00:55:03.540 They, their discipleship process, the things that they were doing, they were doing it a different way. 00:55:03.540 --> 00:55:07.480 And so, you know, at the end of it, it was, okay, leadership doesn't see it. 00:55:07.540 --> 00:55:09.800 So we're going to, we're, we're going to move on. 00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:14.160 And so it's kind of understanding, hey, we want to align. 00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:18.280 And we've always said this church online needs to align to what's, what's happening. 00:55:18.380 --> 00:55:29.220 Physical needs to compliment, needs to work together, uh, mission and, and vision, uh, doesn't change whether physical or online strategy may adjust, especially in this COVID season. 00:55:29.420 --> 00:55:40.580 But hopefully it's, it's aligning towards working together towards it, getting lead pastor, getting, uh, discipleship, getting your local missions guy, getting, it's funny within the organization. 00:55:40.580 --> 00:55:49.920 When I was doing that, that micro location stuff, I was hanging out more with like the, the global missions guy, uh, and the local missions guy than I was anybody else. 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:56.120 Cause I was learning from them and getting them to help me in the projects more than I was anything in worship and production. 00:55:56.120 --> 00:56:00.440 And even on the, on the campus pastors, cause it was just this completely different thing. 00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:16.060 So have conversations with those guys and start to wrestle with, there's nothing wrong with the watch party in the short term, but grow and develop something, especially if you're wanting to do it long-term beyond COVID, grow beyond that to have a higher expectation. 00:56:16.540 --> 00:56:17.720 Ray, it looks like you got something. 00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:18.080 What do you think? 00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:18.260 Yeah. 00:56:18.340 --> 00:56:26.460 Keeping that in mind, what would you guys suggest would be like the bare minimum commitment that a church should be willing to be vested in this before they went for it, even in this post COVID season. 00:56:26.700 --> 00:56:34.600 Like so that it doesn't just become a side project because everybody's getting very ADD right now about how to reopen, about how to do what's next or whatever else. 00:56:34.600 --> 00:56:46.160 And so if you were to tell somebody, Hey, don't do this unless you're in it for five years, 10 years, what would be like the right timeframe where you would say, Hey, don't be in on this unless you're willing to commit this long. 00:56:46.640 --> 00:56:49.680 I mostly just meant the clarity of that vision. 00:56:49.880 --> 00:57:00.340 I think it's fine to have a bandaid of watch parties right now, make that clear that that's your bandaid and don't make it to be like this huge launch that we're going to launch these watch parties. 00:57:00.340 --> 00:57:01.980 And then three months from now, we're not going to have them. 00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:06.780 But that wasn't clear upfront because that's when it becomes confusing. 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:09.220 That's when it becomes hard to communicate to your people. 00:57:09.680 --> 00:57:16.440 So I'm not sure there needs to be a minimum commitment other than there has to be a set clear vision for what you're about to start. 00:57:16.940 --> 00:57:19.740 Because many churches have come and said, we want to start watch parties. 00:57:20.120 --> 00:57:22.200 And I'll say, well, what happens when you come back in person? 00:57:22.240 --> 00:57:24.120 And they're like, Oh, well, they'll just probably go away on their own. 00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:30.040 But what happens if there becomes like a community of believers at that home site? 00:57:30.120 --> 00:57:32.200 Are we okay with them not coming back to the church? 00:57:32.200 --> 00:57:33.080 Because that's working. 00:57:33.520 --> 00:57:36.160 And that's where the vision becomes not clear. 00:57:36.380 --> 00:57:39.160 And then your people don't buy in and they're confused. 00:57:39.520 --> 00:57:41.520 And that's the part that's intriguing right now, right? 00:57:41.520 --> 00:57:46.080 Because a lot of people are fearful that many people will stay online for the foreseeable future. 00:57:46.140 --> 00:57:51.140 That they're not going to come back no matter how hard they beg them to come back into their locations. 00:57:51.460 --> 00:57:59.940 And then if they have an in-between step, and don't communicate that as just an in-between step, then odds are people who feel comfortable there, right? 00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.220 Like, I would stick. 00:58:01.340 --> 00:58:03.640 I would be like, hey, this environment is working for me, right? 00:58:03.640 --> 00:58:04.160 Yep. 00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:19.580 So within this crisis became opportunity for us to cast vision, except many of us went into like shutdown survival mode and just tried to get it going, rather than like taking a breath, and then regrouping and casting a vision throughout this time period. 00:58:20.100 --> 00:58:27.860 And we've run the danger of now having online, plus microsites, plus still trying to get everybody to come back to the building. 00:58:28.200 --> 00:58:31.760 And it's just this never-ending cycle of disappointment within every single realm. 00:58:32.200 --> 00:58:38.480 Yeah, I was going to say something similar to Tyler, especially on the watch party type approach and all that. 00:58:38.660 --> 00:58:41.400 I think you communicate, this is an experiment. 00:58:42.220 --> 00:58:43.580 We're going to try this. 00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:49.380 We don't know how long, but I think you have to communicate it the way Tyler said. 00:58:49.380 --> 00:59:00.160 If you come out like it is your church's lifeline for the next 10 years, and you get a bunch of people connecting to it, and then you cut it off in three months, you're going to have a serious problem on your hands. 00:59:00.940 --> 00:59:04.440 We've had people say, man, I love this church at home thing. 00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:06.940 I didn't realize how much I could get done on a Sunday morning. 00:59:06.940 --> 00:59:17.140 I mean, we know there are some people that no matter what amount of begging we do may not come back to an in-person gathering for the foreseeable future. 00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:20.300 So we have to try to prepare for that and understand that. 00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:28.060 Worded maybe a little too harshly on some of this stuff, I love pastors with all my heart. 00:59:28.300 --> 00:59:32.240 I believe that some of my future is going to be training and equipping pastors. 00:59:32.540 --> 00:59:33.160 I love them. 00:59:33.260 --> 00:59:33.920 I really do. 00:59:34.560 --> 00:59:48.080 But sometimes I don't think we know what a disciple is, and then we run out and chase and throw a bunch of stuff at the wall, spaghetti noodles and darts, and throw whatever we can and hope something sticks. 00:59:48.500 --> 00:59:50.540 And we have no idea what we're aiming at. 00:59:50.600 --> 00:59:52.280 We don't even know when we've produced it. 00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:54.300 And yet we demand immediate results. 00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:59.140 And we don't even know if we've hit the result because we don't know what it looks like. 00:59:59.260 --> 01:00:07.820 Most pastors have, in most cases, have been trained up in Bible college or seminary, and they've got a certain level of head knowledge. 01:00:07.820 --> 01:00:12.200 But they've not even been discipled themselves to the point where they can do some of this. 01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:23.060 And so from a discipleship and a disciple-making perspective, I think a lot of pastors need to slow down in this season and wrestle with what in the world is a disciple of Jesus? 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.060 What's it look like? 01:00:24.100 --> 01:00:27.000 How do I even know if I've made one? 01:00:27.680 --> 01:00:31.600 I've got a lot of people coming to my church, but did I make a disciple? 01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:34.760 Like, I mean, that's a big one, too. 01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:41.220 And the defining of it goes back to Tyler's point about the vision. 01:00:41.600 --> 01:00:47.560 It's really hard to cast a clear, compelling vision for something you don't know what it looks like. 01:00:48.200 --> 01:00:53.940 So there is even some more underlying work there to say, what am I trying to hit? 01:00:54.040 --> 01:00:59.260 And do I really think I can pull that off in three months because I throw this experiment at the wall? 01:00:59.540 --> 01:01:02.260 And even if I did, would I know I hit it or not? 01:01:03.600 --> 01:01:08.200 There's a lot of foundational work, I think, that needs to be done. 01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:13.440 And some of it stems right from the question, what does the disciple of Jesus look like? 01:01:13.620 --> 01:01:16.900 Do I even know what this is supposed to look like coming out the other side? 01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:20.960 I don't know if we have a real good grasp on that. 01:01:21.660 --> 01:01:29.900 Yeah, I mean, that's, especially when we're evaluating pre-COVID, a successful church is the number of butts in a seat. 01:01:30.580 --> 01:01:32.880 The nickels and no's is a joke that we make all the time. 01:01:33.500 --> 01:01:36.520 Hopefully, we're learning something, you know, in this season. 01:01:38.180 --> 01:01:47.900 Maybe not, you know, I had a church here in South Florida tell me they had 500,000 viewers online for their Easter Sunday service, online and TV. 01:01:48.100 --> 01:01:49.200 I told the story a couple of times. 01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:49.520 Wow. 01:01:49.600 --> 01:01:50.280 500,000. 01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:54.260 Connection cards that they actually had to engage to follow up with people, they had 11. 01:01:54.400 --> 01:02:07.080 And so, you know, the butts in seats, the viewing of your corporate worship service in physical or even digital, you know, the content, content's not changing the world. 01:02:07.260 --> 01:02:08.580 Content's not changing lives. 01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:11.960 Content needs to lead towards relational. 01:02:12.220 --> 01:02:19.260 I've had Mark Vinty at church home tell me the goal isn't physical, the goal isn't digital, the goal is face-to-face as soon as possible. 01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:27.920 And whether that's done virtually or physically, but it's through these relationships that we're beginning to see that, which is why I love everything that we've been talking about here. 01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:39.340 Because at that, when we empower people and get them as a disciple-making mindset and send them out, mobilize them, they are now like that front wave of faces. 01:02:39.340 --> 01:02:46.000 And they're reaching their ones, their circle of influence, either neighborhoods or affinities or whatever, towards it. 01:02:46.260 --> 01:02:48.320 I love everything about this conversation. 01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:49.940 This has been awesome. 01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:51.480 But unfortunately, we've got to wrap. 01:02:51.620 --> 01:02:53.820 Real quick before we go, Tyler, 30 seconds. 01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:55.720 You're doing some interesting stuff in Church Anywhere. 01:02:56.660 --> 01:02:57.720 Tell me about the podcast. 01:02:57.860 --> 01:02:58.580 Tell me about what you're doing. 01:02:58.880 --> 01:02:59.340 Yeah, man. 01:02:59.380 --> 01:03:02.960 So we started a podcast mostly just to compete with you. 01:03:03.580 --> 01:03:04.260 So... 01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:05.100 The more the merrier. 01:03:05.260 --> 01:03:07.560 Listen, come on, let's do this thing. 01:03:07.780 --> 01:03:09.300 It's a big world out there. 01:03:09.300 --> 01:03:12.780 We had just launched a fully digital church. 01:03:13.060 --> 01:03:16.640 So a separate entity under the umbrella of First Capital Ministries. 01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:18.680 Church Anywhere is like a thing now. 01:03:19.220 --> 01:03:20.840 So I get to be the lead pastor. 01:03:21.100 --> 01:03:23.860 And we've got three other staff as well. 01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:30.360 So an engagement pastor, a family ministries pastor, and an administrator who's like been the bomb. 01:03:30.460 --> 01:03:32.580 She's helped so much with a bunch of staff. 01:03:33.140 --> 01:03:42.100 But we're basically just documenting our journey to start a digital church, which has been really, really fun to talk through some of the stuff that we're doing. 01:03:43.040 --> 01:03:47.260 We launch officially on the 21st of this month. 01:03:47.260 --> 01:03:54.800 So all of our content has been produced for a while, all of our strategies and all that good stuff has been being worked on for a while. 01:03:54.960 --> 01:03:56.460 And I'm excited to really launch it. 01:03:56.740 --> 01:03:57.440 That's awesome. 01:03:57.640 --> 01:04:00.240 So digital-only church from Church Anywhere. 01:04:00.340 --> 01:04:02.660 Super excited to see what he's doing. 01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:09.160 If you're not following Tyler on social and tracking with what Church Winner is, Church Anywhere is doing, you really should. 01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:11.680 These guys are nailing it. 01:04:11.740 --> 01:04:19.460 Stan, of course, with everything he's doing at NLCC, which, by the way, you're the third staff person from NLCC to be on the show. 01:04:20.240 --> 01:04:29.720 We've had, of course, we've had Tom and Jake with the digital-only church has been on here several times and excited about what Jake's doing also as digital-only church. 01:04:29.720 --> 01:04:34.840 By the way, Stadia, we're doing a hard press on this digital-only church. 01:04:35.060 --> 01:04:39.140 We're starting cohorts in church planning processes. 01:04:39.340 --> 01:04:42.480 Our hope is to be launching digital churches by the end of the year. 01:04:42.720 --> 01:04:52.260 So if you're interested, if you're tracking with some of the stuff with Tyler, what he's doing with the house level or Jake with video games or DJ Soto with virtual reality, 01:04:52.260 --> 01:04:58.020 I mean, that's literally my job is to help people like you plant digital-only churches. 01:04:58.280 --> 01:05:00.200 That is my job title. 01:05:00.520 --> 01:05:08.000 So however I can help you, let's get together, let's talk on social media, put a link in the show notes, and we will go from there. 01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:12.700 But, hey, we're going to wrap the podcast for Tyler, for Stan, for Ray. 01:05:12.780 --> 01:05:13.960 This is Jeff at The Church Digital. 01:05:14.600 --> 01:05:16.800 Thanks for jumping on here, and we'll see you next time on the show. 01:05:16.860 --> 01:05:17.380 You all have a good day.