WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.680 Episode 87 of the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planning. 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:05.560 Jeff Reed here. 00:00:06.060 --> 00:00:09.380 Hey, yeah, so audio, video looks a little different than it typically does. 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:11.120 I'm actually on vacation. 00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:14.460 I'm at Vero Beach, Florida. 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:17.180 I'm in a hotel room. 00:00:17.580 --> 00:00:19.960 I'm so passionate about digital-only churches. 00:00:20.340 --> 00:00:22.140 Let's pause the vacation. 00:00:22.580 --> 00:00:27.600 Let's come in and let's have a conversation talking about digital-only churches here for the podcast. 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:28.500 So here we are. 00:00:28.700 --> 00:00:31.100 We're doing a podcast on vacation from Vero Beach, Florida. 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:36.300 Behind the curtain, there's literally like, you know, outside and sun and skies, and it's awesome. 00:00:36.380 --> 00:00:45.920 But once again, it's COVID season, so I'm stuck inside staring at the walls of a room, even though it's sunny and beautiful outside, because Florida is the hotspot of whatever. 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:46.560 Awesome. 00:00:46.980 --> 00:00:47.480 Great stuff. 00:00:47.780 --> 00:00:50.660 Hey, so let's talk about digital-only churches. 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:51.740 I put together a panel. 00:00:51.740 --> 00:00:56.780 By the way, Stadia is doing digital-only expressions of church. 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:01.720 We're helping church planners figure out how to plant a church digitally. 00:01:01.940 --> 00:01:03.120 And that's our mission. 00:01:03.220 --> 00:01:03.740 That's our vision. 00:01:04.060 --> 00:01:04.620 That's our goal. 00:01:04.780 --> 00:01:10.620 I'm not saying it's my job title, but it's literally my job title, Director of Digital-Only Church Planting. 00:01:10.780 --> 00:01:19.940 And so let's figure out how Stadia can help people like you maybe plant a digital-only expression of church. 00:01:20.100 --> 00:01:24.600 We're starting some cohorts in September 2020. 00:01:25.240 --> 00:01:28.780 And we're looking for people maybe like you who are asking some questions. 00:01:28.880 --> 00:01:30.480 Hey, what's a digital-only church? 00:01:31.100 --> 00:01:42.640 We're looking for people like you to step up, to come in here, to learn how to plant a church only in digital-only space, not digital first that may one day grow into a physical environment. 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:55.880 No, we're looking for people who want to do church to reach a digital community with the gospel in digital community to the end game of doing discipleship within the digital community. 00:01:56.300 --> 00:01:58.620 No physical footprint required. 00:01:59.140 --> 00:02:02.480 Some of you out there are saying right now, hey, Jeff, that's crazy. 00:02:02.820 --> 00:02:03.380 Yeah, you know what? 00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:03.800 You're right. 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:04.660 It is crazy. 00:02:05.020 --> 00:02:07.500 But there have been people that have been doing this for years. 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:25.000 And this is the panel we're bringing into the conversation because, hey, I want you to meet these crazy people who are actually doing this and to hear the stories of what crazy people sound like when they tell stories of the life change they're seeing when they do crazy stuff like plant a church in digital-only space. 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:30.340 So for this conversation, we're bringing in three digital-only church planters. 00:02:30.580 --> 00:02:32.000 We're bringing in Jade Earhart. 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:33.540 Jade is no stranger to the podcast. 00:02:34.040 --> 00:02:39.100 He may actually hold the record right now for most times that he's been a guest on the podcast. 00:02:39.220 --> 00:02:39.880 We'll have to do the map. 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:47.880 He, the map there, he runs a church called Love Clan in Discord. 00:02:48.440 --> 00:02:50.680 His target is really video gamers. 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:58.800 And he's using video games to connect with, engage, and just lead to Christ and disciple people in digital space. 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.300 We're also bringing back Angela Craig. 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:03.860 Angela, we did a podcast with her just recently. 00:03:03.860 --> 00:03:08.200 She is passionate about Facebook. 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.960 And it's actually, I think, Assemblies of God, like their first social media church. 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:15.180 It's not like there's a lot of other social media churches. 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:22.640 But she's been in Assemblies of God Church, Pursuit Church Live, on Facebook for a number of years. 00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:28.280 So we'll include links to their show notes and the show notes, links to their churches for you to check out. 00:03:28.760 --> 00:03:30.940 We're also bringing somebody new into the podcast. 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:32.380 We're bringing Alina in. 00:03:32.920 --> 00:03:36.740 And Alina is part of the volunteer leadership of VR Church. 00:03:36.740 --> 00:03:46.680 Now, DJ Soto, we've done lots of conversations with them, good friends, and love the stuff that he is doing for the kingdom and virtual reality. 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.240 And I was like, hey, DJ, come on this podcast. 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:51.660 And DJ's like, I can't, man. 00:03:51.860 --> 00:03:55.740 I'm going to be on vacation, so am I, but he's more sabbatical. 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:56.820 And so I wanted to give him a space. 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:03.280 I think he's up in the mountains somewhere where he doesn't have Wi-Fi, because that's where a digital-only person really vacations where there's no Wi-Fi. 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:04.160 Good for you, DJ. 00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:07.080 But I asked the next best thing, hey, DJ, give me somebody else. 00:04:07.320 --> 00:04:09.800 Who's your best person to kind of speak into this? 00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:12.440 And he said, you got to talk to Alina. 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:18.320 And so for this conversation, we're bringing in Alina from VR Church. 00:04:18.400 --> 00:04:20.360 We're bringing in Jay from Love Plan. 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:23.560 We're bringing in Angela from Pursuit Church Live. 00:04:23.880 --> 00:04:34.240 Myself with the church digital, as well as Stadia Church Planning, to really have a conversation centered around the stories and the vision of a digital-only church. 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:41.940 And that's what you're getting, the stories, the vision, the strategies of a digital-only expression of church. 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.200 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:04:44.740 --> 00:04:54.440 Alina, maybe just even to kick us off, you want to maybe introduce yourself, talk about how you got connected with VR Church, kind of what that relationship is. 00:04:54.940 --> 00:04:56.980 And just tell us a little bit about that. 00:04:57.100 --> 00:04:58.520 Tell us your ministry story. 00:04:58.900 --> 00:04:59.840 Wow, great story. 00:04:59.980 --> 00:05:00.720 It's so long. 00:05:00.820 --> 00:05:02.080 I'm going to try and shorten it up. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.260 I have a illness. 00:05:06.440 --> 00:05:07.940 I've been ill for about 10 years. 00:05:08.900 --> 00:05:12.300 I have a temperature problem. 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:24.840 My vascular system, my neurological vascular system doesn't work, which makes me unable to go outside because if it gets, the temperature increases, I burn, temperature goes down a little bit. 00:05:24.840 --> 00:05:26.540 I lose circulation. 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:40.680 And that left me confined at my house for about seven years until just me and my husband and my cats, pretty isolated, quarantine for seven years pretty much, until I discovered virtual, yeah. 00:05:41.460 --> 00:05:45.540 And went into all space, didn't know what to expect. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.200 I saw there was a church there. 00:05:47.340 --> 00:05:48.200 I thought that was crazy. 00:05:48.520 --> 00:05:49.460 That was my first reaction. 00:05:49.540 --> 00:05:50.100 That's crazy. 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.040 So I had to go check it out. 00:05:52.600 --> 00:06:01.840 And when I did, I just, I, in that moment, I knew that this was it. 00:06:02.020 --> 00:06:07.020 And I, I had no experience, no anything. 00:06:07.020 --> 00:06:18.540 I just knew that I had to jump in and do whatever I humanly could to make sure that this, whatever I could do to make it grow, make it flourish, make it stay, make it, yeah. 00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:25.460 So I just started volunteering where I could, started taking some seminary things, just so I could better. 00:06:25.640 --> 00:06:27.680 I didn't even realize I was going to be a pastor. 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:32.060 I was just, like, trying to, my life groups, my everything, so I was going to be a little bit better. 00:06:32.820 --> 00:06:42.880 And, yeah, over a few years, I just ended up becoming a pastor for Toronto Church. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:47.520 And it's now pretty much, it's all voluntary, voluntary. 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:57.660 It's, you know, there's not a whole lot of financial support yet, as probably most of you know, but the online digital type ministry. 00:06:58.100 --> 00:07:08.120 But, so, yeah, so I bombed here, and it's, it's been, there's no words, wow. 00:07:08.380 --> 00:07:16.400 I can't believe it, but my sick self, that is still isolated to my home, that is still in horrific pain on a regular basis, 00:07:17.060 --> 00:07:22.140 I am happier now than I ever was, ever. 00:07:22.140 --> 00:07:29.500 Like, it's most, I can't cry, because they put mascara on, you know, and then the whole video thing. 00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:34.160 But, yes, yes, it's just, like, insane. 00:07:34.780 --> 00:07:44.980 And so, yeah, Pastor Soto and I, maybe about a year ago, just decided that I'm on board, 100%, 00:07:44.980 --> 00:07:56.060 and so we're going to not just do it now, but for however many years I have left in me, just continue, just continue. 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:03.860 And we're just going to keep growing, and we already have another platform coming up, and the whole church is ran by volunteers. 00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:06.480 And there's so many of them, I use trap. 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:08.440 Everybody's giving up a good time. 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:10.540 Yeah, I love that, Alina. 00:08:10.740 --> 00:08:19.980 I love your heart, kind of, as I hear, you know, you're a volunteer, you're serving, you're contributing outside of a paying job. 00:08:20.020 --> 00:08:24.320 You're right, a lot of these digital-only churches, the majority of them, have little, you know, funding, 00:08:24.620 --> 00:08:32.880 and are very much leaning on that volunteer structure in place to do ministry. 00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:39.180 And, you know, these are one of the things, and we'll get to later, about how maybe the physical church model and a digital-only expression of church, 00:08:39.340 --> 00:08:43.620 there's some differences kind of in the midst of that. 00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:53.040 But even just to open up to the group here, like, where did the idea of doing a digital-only church come from? 00:08:53.040 --> 00:09:01.580 Like, you know, DJ, obviously, was doing his virtual reality, but Jay, Angela, like, what did, at the beginning, what did this look like? 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:03.920 What did a digital-only church look like? 00:09:03.980 --> 00:09:05.800 What was the genesis kind of concept here? 00:09:06.460 --> 00:09:11.860 Six or seven years ago, I started doing groups on Facebook for women in leadership, 00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:18.680 and they were through the Assembly of God, and the initial idea was to serve the women of the churches, 00:09:18.880 --> 00:09:20.260 so raise up leaders in the churches. 00:09:20.920 --> 00:09:29.560 And what I found was 40% of our groups, in most cases, were women that were not in the church. 00:09:29.920 --> 00:09:37.120 They were women who loved Jesus or were interested in faith, wanted to pursue purpose. 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:42.500 They knew that they had a purpose, didn't know what it was, but they had been disconnected from church. 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:47.760 Either they were hurt, they couldn't go, they couldn't get there on Sundays, 00:09:48.220 --> 00:09:58.560 maybe they had chronic illness, or they were a single mom, or there was a list of things that were keeping people from church. 00:09:58.680 --> 00:10:02.960 And then I thought, well, doing some research, as you all know, speaking in the choir, 00:10:03.140 --> 00:10:06.220 over 60% of Americans won't attend a church. 00:10:07.100 --> 00:10:12.440 And that was really my heartbeat, was because I'm an includer and a connector, 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.920 and I want everybody to know that they matter. 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:21.180 And so I asked our network what they thought of me trying a digital platform. 00:10:21.900 --> 00:10:25.300 And so they were like, well, go for it. 00:10:26.300 --> 00:10:30.340 At the time, they didn't approve it nationally from the national office. 00:10:30.860 --> 00:10:33.000 But I just was like, well, I'm going to do this anyway. 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.760 So that's how we got started. 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:42.260 And that was our motivation, was just people that couldn't go to church or didn't want to go to church. 00:10:42.900 --> 00:10:50.800 So you're seeing like 60% of people, you quoted the stat, won't engage at a physical location, 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:52.580 are not interested in coming to the building. 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:55.480 I've heard similar stats coming out of LifeWay. 00:10:55.580 --> 00:11:04.240 And so like for you, the genesis of creating Pursue Church Live was this idea of, well, if I can't get them to the building, 00:11:04.700 --> 00:11:15.100 let me utilize these digital tools to engage with them, you know, at least in social media or in the digital space and do church then. 00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:21.600 Now, you started, Angela, you started in Bible study by doing that online. 00:11:21.820 --> 00:11:25.620 And like, at what point did it go from a Bible study to a church? 00:11:25.780 --> 00:11:33.600 Like, how did the idea grow and morph from just doing the online Bible studies to, you know, maybe where you are today? 00:11:33.700 --> 00:11:34.640 Kind of walk me through that. 00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:35.700 Trial and error. 00:11:36.760 --> 00:11:40.440 When we first started in 2017, we tried every platform. 00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:42.860 We tried streaming to our website. 00:11:43.460 --> 00:11:44.480 We tried Instagram. 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:46.140 We tried WhatsApp. 00:11:46.420 --> 00:11:47.280 We tried Facebook. 00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:50.460 And to be successful, I knew I needed to focus in one place. 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:56.800 And Facebook right now has 2.65 billion people coming to the doors now in COVID. 00:11:57.660 --> 00:12:00.880 And so that was the easiest free platform. 00:12:01.400 --> 00:12:05.160 Like, Lena, we are all volunteers as well. 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:12.340 And so I just figured, well, we're going to start there because Facebook will share what we're doing for free. 00:12:12.900 --> 00:12:15.520 And we have the biggest audience. 00:12:15.820 --> 00:12:21.120 And I didn't have one specific person that I was targeting at the time. 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:22.720 I know you're supposed to do that. 00:12:23.060 --> 00:12:27.100 But I was just really open to including everyone. 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:33.820 And I, you know, I looked at the early church and they met in homes. 00:12:33.920 --> 00:12:36.220 They came together wherever they could come together. 00:12:36.340 --> 00:12:39.120 Not even in homes, but wherever they could come together, they came together. 00:12:39.740 --> 00:12:42.200 And now we come together online. 00:12:42.520 --> 00:12:45.220 So that's how we started. 00:12:46.060 --> 00:12:46.860 It's beautiful. 00:12:46.900 --> 00:12:57.080 Can I just add when you said about, you know, whether it be because they were hurt elsewhere or they just couldn't physically and how important that it was that this is available to everyone. 00:12:58.180 --> 00:13:02.220 This is such a huge drive and motivation for me as well. 00:13:02.660 --> 00:13:09.920 We have people all the time that come in that say whether they maybe have been hurt in the past. 00:13:10.300 --> 00:13:15.180 And they're just too afraid to go into a physical church. 00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:19.220 And what if they have the same experience where online they can pop in? 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:20.460 They don't like it. 00:13:20.860 --> 00:13:24.180 They can, you know, if it's not for them, they could just discreetly leave. 00:13:24.260 --> 00:13:25.600 They don't have to get up and walk out. 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:29.860 So it's so much easier for them to just check it out. 00:13:30.180 --> 00:13:31.820 Connecting people from all around the world. 00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:32.540 It's pretty awesome. 00:13:33.540 --> 00:13:40.000 You know, DJ's told me stats, something like 80 to 85% of people, I don't want to misquote, so if you know the real thing, let me know. 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:52.520 But DJ's talked about VR church, 80 to 85% are people who are lost or atheists coming in, agnostics coming in to just experience it. 00:13:52.880 --> 00:13:59.440 Like even the putting on of the goggles, taking them off, like that's the exit plan. 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:08.440 If they're not comfortable, if they don't, you know, agree with what's happening, it's not like they're a captive audience and stuck in a location. 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:16.320 But even just to explore, to experiment, they're seeing that in that digital-only realm with the virtual reality. 00:14:16.900 --> 00:14:20.780 What is it like, Alina, doing ministry in an environment? 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:28.620 First off, do you see that, like having that large of lostness being experienced in the VR services? 00:14:29.040 --> 00:14:32.340 And what is it like to kind of do ministry in that type of environment? 00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:37.600 It's exciting is what it is, because there's a difference, I guess. 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:47.040 And they're both wonderful, but there's a difference between, you know, nurturing and feeding someone that already has their faith. 00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:54.200 There's something extra exciting about bringing new people to the Lord. 00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:56.340 And it's happened so frequently. 00:14:56.680 --> 00:15:00.060 I've even had like people that came in with the intent to troll. 00:15:01.300 --> 00:15:03.480 I just found out what trolling was a few years ago. 00:15:03.660 --> 00:15:07.280 Anyway, they tend to come in and make a disaster. 00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:08.500 And they actually did. 00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:14.820 And then they came back the following Sunday, because even though they came to me, they still hear it. 00:15:14.860 --> 00:15:17.060 They still receive it in there somewhere. 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:19.060 There's still a little plant, you know, seed there. 00:15:19.460 --> 00:15:29.820 And I've actually had people, there's someone that volunteers now, that came back to me a couple of weeks later, waited till after all of the after-service prayers, then 30 minutes he waited there. 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:31.420 And I'm like, can I pray for you? 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:32.980 Because this is what we're doing at the moment. 00:15:33.380 --> 00:15:34.960 And he's like, no, it's okay. 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:38.940 I just really want to apologize for my actions a couple of weeks ago. 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:40.020 And he was trolling. 00:15:40.620 --> 00:15:42.300 And he just told me his story. 00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:47.820 And he was just devastated, so much loss, so much grief in this small amount of time. 00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:49.360 And he just needed to get out. 00:15:50.260 --> 00:15:54.080 And I just said, I am totally understanding. 00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:55.620 Let's pray. 00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:56.320 And we did pray. 00:15:57.260 --> 00:15:59.720 He now serves at volunteer church. 00:16:00.140 --> 00:16:01.940 He still now serves at VR church. 00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:12.560 And there's just like, wow, that is a really incredible thing to not just see once in a blue moon, but to see all the time. 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:13.760 That's awesome. 00:16:14.380 --> 00:16:17.300 Hey, you know, lots of, it's interesting. 00:16:17.860 --> 00:16:21.280 85%, you know, that's a very high number. 00:16:21.400 --> 00:16:23.260 60% don't want to set foot in a building. 00:16:23.260 --> 00:16:40.560 And so when we look at the people who are doing digital only, one of the biggest differences between, I won't say one of, but one of, it's not the only, but one of, is this idea of it's much more open to lost people or people who are cold to Christ. 00:16:40.660 --> 00:16:41.780 Maybe we should say it that way. 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:44.520 Where they're not warm to it. 00:16:44.660 --> 00:16:50.700 It's not a church experience necessarily for the 99s, the people who are warm to Christ. 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:55.960 But it's more focused off after going after that, that evangelism component. 00:16:57.540 --> 00:17:12.080 What are some, what are some other things that when we look at a difference between a digital only church and a physical church experience, you know, I know, Angela, Jade, you guys have had experience in that physical space as well. 00:17:13.100 --> 00:17:18.960 What, what, what is the difference between a digital only expression of church and maybe a physical church? 00:17:19.060 --> 00:17:25.680 What, what should some of us that are more comfortable in the physical realm, what should we be looking for as a difference in a digital only expression? 00:17:26.540 --> 00:17:27.280 Um, sure. 00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:27.740 Yeah. 00:17:27.860 --> 00:17:33.340 I mean, I think a lot of the, um, so like even just thinking about the last question kind of leads into this one. 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:42.960 Where, where, where, where did the, the reason for an online only church come from, uh, for us, it's mostly by accident. 00:17:43.540 --> 00:17:49.560 Um, you know, it was just that, that it, uh, it was the plan to start a physical church. 00:17:49.560 --> 00:17:52.000 You know, our church is specifically for gamers. 00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:12.220 So we do have kind of a targeted audience, maybe the less of not to not be inclusive, but more, it's sort of like, um, you know, that you, you have people that have a specific need, uh, and if they're not being heard, you know, like a lot of the Activision or Activision, that's actually activation stuff that is happening right now. 00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:20.340 Um, activist type level where we're saying this minority group is not being heard and it's not that we're saying we're not including everybody in it. 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.560 It's just this group needs to be heard right now. 00:18:22.620 --> 00:18:36.140 And so, um, I saw that, you know, with, uh, with gamers, it was, um, a group of people that felt like they had been hurt by the church at large, um, rather intentionally or not, um, or everybody did that or not. 00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:39.260 And so they were currently online. 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:42.520 And so my, my thought was, this is what I can do right now. 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:49.560 Um, I, I, if I had the capacity, if I had the money, the ability, I would have started a physical church. 00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:58.420 Um, but because I didn't, and because I did have the ability via discord, um, and Facebook and other means, I was able to connect with people online. 00:18:58.420 --> 00:19:09.600 And so, uh, I think it's sort of the creativity comes out of, um, a, uh, a smaller, um, see, see, what is it? 00:19:09.600 --> 00:19:19.920 There's something like, uh, I don't know the exact word, but it's something like having, having the confines of something creates creativity or something like that. 00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:27.600 I can't remember the exact quote, but, but basically not, not having unlimited resources, usually you become creative, I guess, out of that. 00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:43.880 And so we kind of had to, um, so people were online and, um, and, and, and so I say one of the main things from the, that, that we learned from that is that that's where people are throughout the week. 00:19:44.300 --> 00:19:54.320 So with the physical, you're really, you're creating a space, um, like if even something like Starbucks or whatever, you're, you're going to have to try to get people to that place. 00:19:54.320 --> 00:19:56.660 If they don't know it exists, then they can't get to it. 00:19:56.660 --> 00:20:04.060 If they don't have a physical location, like if it's within 30, you know, I wouldn't drive 30 miles for a Starbucks, you know? 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:12.440 Um, so there, there's a, there's a gap where like, and I also don't want to, I don't want to assume, uh, you know, I like Angela, you're giving stats that, that are from America. 00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:16.500 But, uh, Alina, if I remember right, are you, is there, where, where are you from? 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:19.240 I'm from Washington state, so U.S. 00:20:19.820 --> 00:20:20.180 Okay. 00:20:20.280 --> 00:20:21.060 So you're from U.S. 00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:33.340 Um, but like there, I know there's lots of people in VR church that, um, are from all over the world and the same is true for love clan and Angela, you know, with your ministry, I don't know how, how that works too. 00:20:33.340 --> 00:20:41.320 But I mean, we have people in our, in our team that are not from the U S I mean, like it's a decent majority of them. 00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:52.400 Um, people that have, were from America that ended up moving to Korea, you know, people that live now in China, um, people that are from, from the UK. 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.540 So yeah, I mean, there's a pretty, pretty actually widespread, uh, group. 00:20:56.540 --> 00:21:06.780 And so the, the online to versus physical mostly is just space that I can connect with people from all around the world. 00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:17.680 Um, and you know, I can read versus like go into all nations a lot more, more literally than maybe somebody that just says, well, we're looking at this state, you know, we're looking at this city. 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:25.900 Um, and, and, and we're really more looking at like, how do we, what, what does it look like for us to have multiple languages? 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:37.260 Um, you know, like, I mean, the, the, the, it, it kind of comes off when it, when it turns into online because you just, you can hit, you can hit people from everywhere. 00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:43.740 And, um, also your, your time restraints are just so different. 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:48.400 You know, I'm not looking at Sunday, uh, like that's just another day. 00:21:48.420 --> 00:22:06.660 When you have people that are willing to be on at all points in time, mostly because if I was to say, you know, even somebody that lives 30 minutes away, if I want to go meet that person, there's still a lot that goes into us meeting versus if there's a group of people online and you just hop on and say, Hey, who's around right now? 00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:15.120 Um, I mean, that, that's just so quick that, uh, it, it, it's a lot of the same reasons that we, we use Facebook. 00:22:15.120 --> 00:22:16.460 Like I have a minute right now. 00:22:16.760 --> 00:22:20.720 Uh, and so I can, I can hop in and that's just really, it's difficult. 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:32.420 Like people's have said Sunday is a hard time, uh, to meet, but I think it's also, um, just that you have more time, more opportunities to catch people throughout the week. 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:36.940 And, and, and that does, again, you know, you read stuff like acts that they're meeting daily. 00:22:36.940 --> 00:22:44.860 You read that more literally when you're doing online, um, versus like a church might say, well, you know, I mean, it has a different context and whatever. 00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:47.020 And, and for us, it is a different context. 00:22:47.020 --> 00:22:48.020 It's just, yeah. 00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:55.100 I was just going to say, there's so much in there, um, that I wanted to say, agree and go, wow. 00:22:55.180 --> 00:22:55.440 Yes. 00:22:55.820 --> 00:23:01.760 Um, but one of those things was about that, uh, ease of meeting and the fact that it's throughout the week. 00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:13.480 It's not just one hour of Sunday, let's see you next week, but there's this fluid, um, every day, every day there, there's people who are active in some way. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:30.540 Um, and what I love is even just yesterday, um, uh, Pastor Wilco was, I had something to share and he lives in, um, the Netherlands and just that quickly, he's like, oh, if you have a moment, it's a whole new project I'm working on. 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.860 And instantly, boom, I put on my thing, put on his thing. 00:23:34.280 --> 00:23:37.740 Two minutes later, we are walking through this incredible world. 00:23:38.260 --> 00:23:43.860 Um, and it's just that easy, you know, that, you know, my drive, the hobby limits is global. 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:52.940 Yeah, it was, it was interesting for me as, as Stadia is doing these digital only church plant cohorts. 00:23:53.480 --> 00:24:07.960 I didn't anticipate like having the global connection that we've had, like, and when we weren't even really broadcasting or promoting this stuff, even, it was really internal, maybe a couple of web pages. 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:21.800 And we suddenly started getting Google hits from, um, and actually having conversations with planners in countries like South Africa, uh, Kenya, uh, Indonesia, uh, Philippines. 00:24:22.040 --> 00:24:33.540 Like, I'm literally like having a very hard time trying to get face to face with somebody literally on the other side of the planet because it's, the meeting can only happen at eight or 9 a.m. 00:24:33.540 --> 00:24:36.780 Or he's way late or I'm way early. 00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:39.980 I was having a conversation with, with the guy in South Africa. 00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:42.880 I don't know, maybe like six or seven o'clock. 00:24:43.040 --> 00:24:51.080 It was after, it was at the end of my time in Eastern and I'm having the conversation and literally in the middle of this, I'm like, what time is it right now where you are? 00:24:51.080 --> 00:24:52.300 And he's like, oh, it's 1 a.m. 00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:55.540 I'm like, why are we talking right now at 1 a.m.? 00:24:55.540 --> 00:24:57.140 There's got to be a better time for you. 00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:58.660 And he's like, oh, I'm up anyway. 00:24:58.760 --> 00:24:59.100 It's okay. 00:24:59.160 --> 00:24:59.960 Not a big deal. 00:25:00.260 --> 00:25:01.220 Now we all need to sleep. 00:25:01.260 --> 00:25:02.440 And I'm not advocating for that. 00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:10.240 Um, although I do it, do it all the time, but we suddenly are seeing how we are able to get reach with an idea. 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:19.740 But even in context of this reach spreading, which I think is really the heart of, of a digital church, it's not just this reach of a, of a one-way communication, 00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:26.140 but it's this idea of an engagement, building relationships in this two-way conversation. 00:25:26.140 --> 00:25:28.300 So, um, I would love this. 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:29.760 Tell me some ministry stories. 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:31.740 I want to dig in here a little bit. 00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:37.200 Like, tell me, um, tell me the greatest experience, the greatest story. 00:25:37.360 --> 00:25:39.900 Tell me one of the wins of your churches digitally. 00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:41.320 I'm a story guy. 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:47.180 Stories go a far way in kind of showing the ministry that's happening in digital only. 00:25:47.380 --> 00:25:51.600 So, so tell me a story of what's happening at y'all's respective churches online. 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:53.580 Well, I know what they're all thinking. 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.480 They're all thinking, where, which one do I start with? 00:25:56.580 --> 00:25:56.920 Right? 00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:00.900 That's what I was thinking. 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:03.840 Like, every day is amazing. 00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:06.020 Like, that is, as far as storytelling. 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:17.880 And that is the biggest difference that I see in traditional church, church, I say traditional church with four walls, and digital ministry, is it is building daily relationships. 00:26:18.300 --> 00:26:26.960 And our local churches, which I'm an era leader for our district here, and our pastors, their biggest question is, how do I get people into church? 00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:28.660 Well, that's even harder right now. 00:26:28.660 --> 00:26:33.420 And then, uh, the second is, how do I get them connected to God and other people? 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:43.200 Well, in the digital space, you have that opportunity from this to go big to small pretty quick just by engaging people in relationship. 00:26:43.800 --> 00:26:54.240 So, uh, just yesterday I was selling a couch on a Facebook group, and the woman drove from about hour and 45 minutes away. 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:59.220 And the first thing she said to me was, we have common people on Facebook as friends. 00:26:59.220 --> 00:26:59.960 And I was like, really? 00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:01.000 Who's that? 00:27:01.120 --> 00:27:08.580 Well, as they turned out, she had gone to, um, like, grade school, a Christian grade school. 00:27:08.760 --> 00:27:17.760 And then she'd been in a church that was, um, she categorized it as cultic, like, as a cult. 00:27:18.080 --> 00:27:19.560 I don't know if it was or was not. 00:27:19.560 --> 00:27:24.800 But, uh, and then she could not express her sexuality, um, because she's gay. 00:27:25.600 --> 00:27:29.140 And so she was basically shunned from the church and her family. 00:27:29.140 --> 00:27:32.840 And she said, now, I still love Jesus. 00:27:32.840 --> 00:27:35.600 I'm still interested in faith, but I have nowhere to go. 00:27:35.940 --> 00:27:36.960 Like, I have nowhere to go. 00:27:37.300 --> 00:27:42.820 And so I got to have a conversation with her about, well, I totally understand where you're at. 00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.340 That's why I started doing this thing three years ago. 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:47.180 So I could connect her online. 00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:52.780 Whereas if I had an in-person space, I couldn't necessarily invite her. 00:27:52.900 --> 00:27:57.220 I mean, I could invite her, but she's not going to come, you know, drive two hours or almost two hours 00:27:57.220 --> 00:27:58.660 to come on a Sunday necessarily. 00:27:59.340 --> 00:28:07.240 So, and that's just one story, um, of how easily you can connect, uh, with people and invite them in. 00:28:07.900 --> 00:28:09.700 Selena, you're way too excited. 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:13.020 Tell me, okay, give me, give me two, give me three. 00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:17.480 Um, there is a good dear friend of mine now for about seven months. 00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:24.020 Um, I, I found her, I, I hadn't seen her around the church or, and then one time I was looking 00:28:24.020 --> 00:28:28.620 in our prayer channel and discord, um, she was asking for prayer because she was in a horrible 00:28:28.620 --> 00:28:29.260 accident. 00:28:29.840 --> 00:28:34.160 Um, she was in the hospital or, uh, she wasn't even sure she's going to walk again. 00:28:34.280 --> 00:28:35.040 She was alone. 00:28:35.140 --> 00:28:36.560 She didn't have anybody with her. 00:28:36.560 --> 00:28:41.860 Um, and, and to boot, she couldn't speak, um, because she couldn't speak. 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.420 That was not within her capabilities. 00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:47.040 And she's, um, asked for prayer. 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:50.960 And I, of course, prayed for her. 00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:56.080 Um, I reached out to her, um, I sent her, I didn't even know her. 00:28:56.120 --> 00:28:58.460 I just like, just saw this in her thing. 00:28:58.540 --> 00:29:00.960 I said, flowers and a little something. 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:09.220 Um, and we had just become such good friends and she's like almost everywhere. 00:29:09.220 --> 00:29:14.860 Cause we have these, you know, life groups and, and hangouts and services and Bible studies. 00:29:14.860 --> 00:29:17.280 And she's like almost everywhere. 00:29:17.540 --> 00:29:18.540 Um, she's home now. 00:29:18.620 --> 00:29:20.920 She's not like, she's taken like three or four steps. 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:28.000 She's not still walking, walking, but, um, just seeing this difference, this her, that 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:36.380 I, this quiet, like hurt little bird almost lonely hurt little bird watching her grow and 00:29:36.380 --> 00:29:38.440 prides and watching her grow. 00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:43.200 And it's just been beautiful. 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:48.480 And just the fact that this can be done, um, and this never would have been done had it 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.480 not been online. 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:55.480 Like she, how's she gonna, um, um, a physical church door from her hospital bed. 00:29:55.480 --> 00:30:00.480 And now she's like super encouraging of everybody else. 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:01.480 It's infectious. 00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:10.480 You know, that the, the, the, my favorite thing is, um, filling the Lord feeling so much love 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:14.480 that overflows, that it spills out without you even trying. 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:22.480 Watch this every day, everybody filling each other with so much love that it just pours out. 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:29.860 And, um, watching, like it's, it's, it's good that we're growing, but it's also sad that we're 00:30:29.860 --> 00:30:34.360 growing because like, I can't connect like I like to with as many people. 00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:35.360 There's not enough time in the day. 00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:45.360 Um, but it sure is beautiful watching them, um, um, one another, encourage each other and 00:30:45.360 --> 00:30:51.360 real, real, um, relationships with Christ and real, real relationships with each other. 00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:56.360 Um, and there's like a, so many incredible, I, okay, last one. 00:30:56.360 --> 00:31:04.360 And then, oh, so a couple of weeks ago, um, after, uh, VR chat service, um, this gentleman 00:31:04.360 --> 00:31:05.360 asked for prayer. 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:10.360 He asked for prayer because he, um, had no access. 00:31:10.360 --> 00:31:13.360 He said he was able somehow to access computer, but normally wouldn't. 00:31:13.360 --> 00:31:21.360 Um, and that where he lives in the world, um, you can't, Christ can't do that. 00:31:21.360 --> 00:31:29.360 And he says, this has been my first connection, my first ability to even be in any sort of fellowship 00:31:29.360 --> 00:31:30.360 in so long. 00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:32.360 And I did cry. 00:31:32.360 --> 00:31:38.360 And I don't know how long it's going to be until I can do this again. 00:31:38.360 --> 00:31:43.360 And just stories like that. 00:31:43.360 --> 00:31:44.360 And they happen a lot. 00:31:44.360 --> 00:31:46.360 And I got to stop talking now. 00:31:46.360 --> 00:31:51.360 Well, it's powerful because you start to, you see an opportunity of where digital is starting 00:31:51.360 --> 00:31:56.360 to reach a type of person that, that really you weren't possibly reaching within the physical 00:31:56.360 --> 00:31:57.360 building. 00:31:57.360 --> 00:32:01.360 Like the, the stories are even Alina yourself with your, with your health conditions. 00:32:01.360 --> 00:32:04.360 You weren't, you're not able to be in the physical space. 00:32:04.360 --> 00:32:10.360 And so, you know, we're, we're talking about, you know, is, is the, is the digital only model 00:32:10.360 --> 00:32:12.360 of church for, for everyone. 00:32:12.360 --> 00:32:15.360 And I don't know 2020 where we are now. 00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:19.360 I don't know that I would say the entire world is going to fit into a digital only church, but 00:32:19.360 --> 00:32:24.360 I think we have an opportunity to reach somebody in ways that the physical building can't. 00:32:24.360 --> 00:32:31.360 And I also would say that trends are leaning more that way almost in this COVID season, every 00:32:31.360 --> 00:32:35.360 day, every week, every month seems to be going more and more as it's just getting more and 00:32:35.360 --> 00:32:40.360 more difficult for physical buildings to, to really be, be utilized again. 00:32:40.360 --> 00:32:47.360 And even like seeing how, you know, for example, Jade here has, has been diving in and, and 00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:54.360 utilizing these digital tools to disciple, to grow, to challenge people, to create other 00:32:54.360 --> 00:32:55.360 disciples. 00:32:55.360 --> 00:33:02.360 Some of this evangelism to disciple making movement that, that he's been able to create, man, like 00:33:02.360 --> 00:33:03.360 it's exciting. 00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:08.360 So Jade, I mean, I want to hear some of these stories, like what's happening in your world 00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:09.360 through, through love plans. 00:33:10.360 --> 00:33:11.360 Sure. 00:33:11.360 --> 00:33:13.360 Um, yeah, no, we just started. 00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:18.360 So I, I just started streaming, um, doing like pretty regularly. 00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:21.360 Uh, I hadn't, I, a bunch of stuff happened. 00:33:21.360 --> 00:33:26.360 My main streaming platform ended, um, Mixer used to be a thing and now it's not. 00:33:26.360 --> 00:33:31.360 So now I switched over to Twitch, uh, which is the primary, it's what most gamers use when 00:33:31.360 --> 00:33:32.360 they're live streaming. 00:33:32.360 --> 00:33:36.360 Um, if you're a church planner, you probably have, I don't know, maybe you've never even heard 00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:37.360 of Twitch. 00:33:37.360 --> 00:33:39.360 It was like, what is it? 00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:40.360 It's a, yeah. 00:33:40.360 --> 00:33:43.360 Um, that doesn't sound like life church, you know, I thought life church was number one, 00:33:43.360 --> 00:33:44.360 you know? 00:33:44.360 --> 00:33:46.360 Um, but yeah, it is. 00:33:46.360 --> 00:33:48.360 So go ahead and say it, but where are you on Twitch? 00:33:48.360 --> 00:33:49.360 Let's, let's go ahead and call it out. 00:33:49.360 --> 00:33:50.360 We'll link to it in the show. 00:33:50.360 --> 00:33:51.360 Okay. 00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:52.360 Uh, it's Jate live. 00:33:52.360 --> 00:33:56.360 That's just my, I'm just doing like just me. 00:33:56.360 --> 00:34:01.360 I'm just playing games and, um, I have my story in the description. 00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:03.360 Um, and we try to connect with people. 00:34:03.360 --> 00:34:09.360 And, uh, so that's just, I'm trying to think of like current things, whatever's the, you know, 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.360 right, right, right in front of us. 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.360 Um, and so that's, for me, I, I quit my job at the church that I was working at. 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:21.360 Uh, so I could give love clan a little bit more of my time and I've been doing freelance 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:25.360 as like a way to, uh, supplement that. 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:28.360 So that's kind of my, what I'm doing now. 00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:36.360 And, um, yeah, it's so my, my thought when I'm, where I want to kind of think it through 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:42.360 is, um, I don't, there's a, a side of this where it's a church planner could look at this 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:44.360 and go, yeah, it really makes sense. 00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:48.360 Um, that they would reach people that otherwise couldn't be reached, you know, or otherwise 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:52.360 couldn't be, uh, go, wouldn't go to a normal church or whatever. 00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:57.360 Um, but I think that can seem very like dismissive. 00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.360 Like it's really good that they're reaching those people cause somebody should. 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.360 And so I'm going to keep doing my physical thing. 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:07.360 Um, and so I know you've talked to Jeff a lot about like fidgetal and like the, you know, 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.360 an idea of like having a digital and a physical. 00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:15.360 And, um, so what I've, what I've kind of seen in some of my thoughts is like, okay, well, 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:21.360 what are ways that during the week you can talk to people that maybe they, maybe they would go to your church. 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:26.360 Maybe they wouldn't, but it's just your, what are you doing during the week? 00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:30.360 Um, and so I've seen a decent number of pastors that have started doing this even where they're 00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:33.360 like, Oh, I was already playing Fortnite with my kids. 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:34.360 I might as well stream it, you know? 00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:40.360 Um, and it's just this other opportunity, uh, to talk to people, you know, during the week, 00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:44.360 during the week you get to hear the stuff that other people are dealing with. 00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:47.360 Um, you're really rubbing shoulders with people more often. 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:57.360 Um, you know, when I think of, of a story just from the, the gaming thing, uh, I was in a game and, um, I did something nice. 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:06.360 There's like some, some, you know, I won't get into why it was nice, uh, because it gets very gamey, but I basically, you know, had a choice to make. 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.360 And I decided to let this other person take the win essentially. 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:18.360 So, uh, and, and they were like, they were not on their mic before that, but then afterwards they were like, Hey, uh, you got to meet my brother. 00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:23.360 He loves when people are nice in games and it was just this like weird, like, what? 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:24.360 I got to meet your brother. 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.360 But he was just like, no one's ever nice in this game. 00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:27.360 You got, my brother's got, he's going to love you. 00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:29.360 You got to, you got to meet them. 00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:33.360 So then I was like, Oh, okay, well, you know, Hey, here's my, you know, information. 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:34.360 I'm actually live streaming. 00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:36.360 And like, here's my discord. 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:37.360 And he joined in there. 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.360 You know, there's like, there's a way to connect with people. 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:47.360 Um, and I've talked about this on other stuff, but the, the idea for us is kind of step cuts where we're saying like, what's, what's the next step? 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:51.360 And we want to try to get people moving down this pathway. 00:36:51.360 --> 00:37:06.360 And so, um, for, for me, a lot of this is how do I, like, if I, if I was to walk into Walmart, it's really difficult for me to talk to somebody and have another conversation with that person. 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:08.360 And so in gaming, it's the same thing. 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:11.360 I mean, it is difficult, but I have the opportunity to talk to somebody. 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:15.360 And that's the first step I don't usually get in Walmart, especially now. 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:18.360 Now, but even before now, it's still, it still was weird. 00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:20.360 If you don't think it's weird for you to talk to people in Walmart, you're probably weird. 00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:23.360 And I love that about you, but you are weird. 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:29.360 So, uh, that's that for, for me, that's like, okay, I have an opportunity to talk to somebody in gaming. 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:36.360 Um, and, and so our, um, like I was live streaming and I was playing a game. 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:45.360 Somebody joined, uh, and said, Hey, uh, so we, so we are, we do our things kind of differently for us. 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:52.360 We have a small group or whatever, like a group of people that we discuss and we play video games while we're going through the Bible. 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.360 So we'll take a chapter of the Bible and we'll go through it while we're playing video games. 00:37:55.360 --> 00:38:02.360 Um, and since people have something in front of them to do that they would have already actively done, the timeframe doesn't really matter as much. 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:04.360 It's not like, yeah, we really got to be home soon. 00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:07.360 You know, it's like, well, I'm already home and I'm eating food right now while I'm playing games. 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:09.360 So we can go ahead and talk about this. 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:11.360 And so it leads to the discussion. 00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:17.360 So, um, those have usually we, it takes about four hours for us to go through a chapter. 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:21.360 Um, because we're like, well, this is a really interesting thing. 00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.360 I hadn't thought about, let's talk about it. 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.360 And we're willing to like really dive into those things. 00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:29.360 So, um, and we're live streaming it while we do that. 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:36.360 So people have joined the chat that have asked questions that, you know, they were like, hey, one person that comes to mind, one person said, hey, um, it's really cool. 00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:43.360 You're talking about this Jesus stuff, but, uh, I'm still really struggling with the whole hell and damnation stuff. 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.360 So could, you know, what do you think about that? 00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:58.360 And, um, you know, that from that experience, I I've kind of started saying that church planners and pastors sometimes answer questions people aren't asking. 00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:07.360 Um, where it's like, let's, let's read through this verse and like, oh, this is a really easy softball thing that my, you know, non-Christian friends will like. 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:11.360 And, you know, it, it, it's sort of like, that's not even the question that they're necessarily asking. 00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:14.360 And that when we're in our mind, we've already made decisions on things. 00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:30.360 And when I'm streaming and I'm, I know that I have atheist friends that are watching, um, one of my mods is an atheist and he's, but we have awesome conversations back and forth because he like grew up in the church and he got kind of, you know, burned where, you know, by it. 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:35.360 And, and so we have really good conversations where he's like, yeah, you know, I guess I just hadn't thought about this way. 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:38.360 Or it's really cool to hear people talking about it this way. 00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:40.360 That's not how I was used to it, you know? 00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:47.360 Um, and so I'm, I will read a verse and I'll say, I'll, I'll hear it and I'll hear it like I'm talking to him. 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:50.360 Cause I am, I mean, virtually I'm, I'm talking to him. 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:57.360 He's in the chat and I'll realize, oh man, like, you know, this verse really doesn't make sense if I don't explain this word. 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:01.360 Like the, this holiness is just a Christian word. 00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.360 Like it doesn't actually mean a whole lot to somebody else. 00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:12.360 So, um, other than in video games, it's like an ability, you know, where you cast light on people and it like makes them radiant or something. 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:28.360 So it's like, how do you, um, I think a lot of the stories come from that, um, just like the opportunity to speak into, um, people's lives who otherwise might have gone to a church. 00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:33.360 But, um, you know, like you said, Alina, where it's a very easy off ramp. 00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:42.360 And I've said multiple times, that's the best and worst thing about online is that it's such an easy on ramp for people, but it's also such just as easy of an off ramp. 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:50.360 And I have people that, I mean, I've prayed for that have said that they are contemplating suicide and, um, I don't know where they went. 00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:54.360 I mean, they, they've just disappeared and that's horrifying to me. 00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:56.360 Um, it's, it keeps me up at night. 00:40:56.360 --> 00:41:14.360 Um, but at the same time, like I have had conversations with people who never, it's not like you said, um, trolls, you know, we've had plenty of, some of our strongest member are people that came purposefully to, um, derail conversations and so on. 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:18.360 And then they stay because they're like, well, I mean, I don't know, just like something's a little different. 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:23.360 And, and then they, you know, so we've kind of said, it's like a church patrols that that's definitely a thing. 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:25.360 Um, yeah, I don't know. 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:26.360 I, I have, I have stories. 00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:34.360 I think I've already shared another podcast that I don't, I don't really want to share again, just because they're long, but, but those are the conversations that do happen. 00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:45.360 I mean, it, it really does to a lot of what you hit it on with, with all that really comes down to relationships, uh, a relationship with a troll is, is not shut up, go away. 00:41:45.360 --> 00:42:07.080 It's an opportunity to engage at a new level and take some of that, that passion that was maybe initially set towards, you know, embarrassing you revert it and actually change it into a passion to grow and to change because there's something different about who we are and how we, we respond to them. 00:42:07.080 --> 00:42:19.080 And even going back to the earlier thing of through online ministry, I tell you, like I learned this lesson early on, if you really want to engage with people online, it's better to ask questions than make statements. 00:42:19.080 --> 00:42:27.080 The more that you can get other people talking, the more likely that you are to be able to speak into their life. 00:42:27.080 --> 00:42:32.080 If you are actually just speaking at them one way, that's not engaging. 00:42:32.080 --> 00:42:42.080 That's actually almost online at a posture of condescending where you're speaking down to them instead of allowing them to engage and speak into the conversation. 00:42:42.080 --> 00:42:51.080 Yeah. And, and not that it's bad because it's, it's biblical, but that is, um, what a church service is. 00:42:51.080 --> 00:42:59.080 You know, it's like, come, come watch me, you know, speak, you know, it, they might, there, there's an interactive portion. 00:42:59.080 --> 00:43:05.080 There definitely is with worship. There's, um, time afterwards that you can ask questions, you can meet and so on. 00:43:05.080 --> 00:43:16.080 But if, if there's somebody that's sitting down and they immediately have something on their mind that's like, well, I don't really care what you say because I don't like hell. 00:43:16.080 --> 00:43:21.080 Um, that's something that we should like address right away. 00:43:21.080 --> 00:43:24.080 And they, they're willing to have that conversation. Then let's have it. 00:43:24.080 --> 00:43:29.080 Uh, and, and I just, I don't know how we get to that stage. 00:43:29.080 --> 00:43:35.080 Usually people have one thing that they don't, they don't need two things to keep them from going to church. 00:43:35.080 --> 00:43:45.080 One's enough, you know? Uh, and, and so for me, it's like kind of being open is like a, um, a dartboard of like, Hey, how's it going guys? 00:43:45.080 --> 00:43:53.080 I'm a Christian and I play video games. Like, let's talk. And, and, and they're, they're not afraid to throw it out, you know, of like, well, I mean, what, what, what could it hurt? 00:43:53.080 --> 00:44:00.080 You know, I'm going to really stump them with this one. Like hell sucks. Doesn't it? You know, it's like, yeah, I mean, I think I've thought about that before. 00:44:00.080 --> 00:44:19.080 Like it, it, it kind of does. Let's talk about like why it's necessary, you know? Um, and that, that, that is something that I think a lot of people, um, when they think of how do I get people to church, a lot of it is like, well, if they could only hear what I had to say, then that, then they would just really change their mind. 00:44:19.080 --> 00:44:45.080 And usually it's like, people need to be heard before they can move on and they can't be heard if they're just sitting in the chairs. So instead we get an opportunity to be like, I hear you. Like, I, I understand what you're saying and you're not wrong. It's just, let me say like where I coming from, because I have a different perspective than, than you, even though I've thought through the same things that you're thinking through and I've dealt with them. Like I've had to pray through a lot of these same problems. 00:44:45.080 --> 00:45:09.080 Um, and so I, I, I think I, I, it just, that's, it's just different. It's different, but it's in a good way where I'm, we're having more open discussion. And that's what small group really should be is an open discussion point for people. But, um, it's rare. I think that people are going to come to your small group before they come to your church. And how will they even know it? Like our church is even promoting their small groups before they're promoting their church. 00:45:09.080 --> 00:45:19.080 If I'm doing a Facebook ad, it's not so I can promote my small group. And, and for obvious reasons, lots of different reasons. So it's, it's looking at it in a different way. 00:45:19.080 --> 00:45:49.060 Um, for, to be honest, that's one of the lessons that I've learned, um, through doing online ministry in recent years, people will, and I, and I've heard it. I've asked so many online pastors, it's guys who are really doing ministries in the space. You know, Jade, I know I've had this conversation with you. People will connect to community, uh, oftentimes online before they connect to Christ. And actually, I think that's almost a precursor to the, to the, to the physical world as well. I think coming out of this COVID season, I don't want to be like the drop the mic guy. 00:45:49.080 --> 00:46:06.080 But I think that's where as a church, I think that's where we need to go is that we need to be more likely to, you know, utilize our people to engaging in community towards it. And that's where I think the idea of a digital only expression that really is engaging people relationally in community. 00:46:06.080 --> 00:46:24.080 And through those relationships talking about Christ that like from, from a one-on-one perspective or one to a few perspective, as opposed to, you know, a man standing on a pole on a stage behind a pulpit, exuding a spiritual gift for hundreds or thousands to see those. 00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:35.440 Those, I mean, if we're really honest with ourselves, that model was struggling pre-COVID. Now COVID's happening and we, we long, there's the small piece of us that wants to get back to that. 00:46:35.660 --> 00:46:40.860 But as a church, there's more to what makes up a church, a church in that one hour on Sunday. 00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:58.420 And what I love is that all of you in context of your digital churches are working towards this idea of creating the community component, really, before we even start diving into this idea of, of actually doing a church service. 00:46:58.420 --> 00:47:09.580 The church service almost is secondary a little bit to, to what an actual church, digital only expression of, of church is, you know, all of you are shaking your heads. 00:47:09.640 --> 00:47:19.400 Yes. And someone listening to the podcast or watching this on YouTube had just exploded because like, you don't say that in physical buildings, but in digital environments, we, we see that time and time again. 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:36.100 Let me ask, you know, Angela, Alina, what, what other lessons, observations, like, what are you, what are you learning maybe about ministry by doing it digitally that maybe is different than, than what we're seeing in the physical space? 00:47:36.160 --> 00:47:38.260 Are there any other things that kind of jump out at you guys? 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:58.300 I think what Jake was saying really is, um, the way I see it from like a leader, leadership perspective is that in the traditional wall church, we have a top down and in digital space, people that are called digital, digital ministry or digital evangelist or whatever you want to call yourself. 00:47:58.300 --> 00:48:12.720 Um, they're looking at it from the perspective of bottom up and creating liminal spaces that are transformational that are creating holding environments where people could come and be safe and really seen. 00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:24.100 And we learned this from our African friends, like they have, they have a total relational way of leadership where the most important thing is to be seen and then work together towards a goal. 00:48:24.100 --> 00:48:40.740 So like, I think intuitively those that are, are, are, are called to digital ministry are seeing this kind of reversed followership as far as we as leaders are learning with and from people that are following. 00:48:41.200 --> 00:48:44.020 And, and so that's incredibly important to me. 00:48:44.100 --> 00:48:52.460 It's, um, some people aren't going to like that structure, uh, but that is the way of Jesus being that, you know, that servant leader. 00:48:52.840 --> 00:49:07.460 Uh, the other thing that I wanted to add to the conversation was as far as, um, a fidgetal church and what would be valuable to see and is not seen unless you do it is that there's so many people within your church. 00:49:07.460 --> 00:49:19.060 Like sometimes whether it's a small army or a large army of people like, uh, uh, Alina who can't serve, um, who have found themselves in a place. 00:49:19.180 --> 00:49:29.440 And that I would say that that's my team was built on that people that love Jesus that could no longer serve for, because of a physical reason. 00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:35.160 And I write that, that was one of the stories I was going to share from my book that I wrote at COVID. 00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:44.800 Um, and I can share that later, but, um, it's, was of a, um, one of our team leaders, she's in charge of our prayer room on Facebook and her name's Anastina. 00:49:45.100 --> 00:49:49.400 And she, um, she just wrote this beautiful blog. 00:49:49.460 --> 00:49:51.560 And so I said, can I share it in my book? 00:49:51.760 --> 00:50:02.760 Because this is just such a description, um, of what, um, leaders can see is we have what nine or 10% of the people in the church actually volunteering. 00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:16.100 And you have a whole bunch of people in your church right now that are online many, many hours that need a purpose and where God gave them a purpose and they have a story to tell. 00:50:16.100 --> 00:50:24.960 So that's my encouragement, um, and I have lots of stories of that, um, as far as, uh, doing both in person and digital. 00:50:25.340 --> 00:50:26.340 That's beautiful. 00:50:26.520 --> 00:50:40.580 Just that, um, the purpose as someone who is that person, um, and not just a random purpose, but such an amazing and beautiful and couldn't be more important purpose. 00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:48.200 And, um, absolutely through digital ministry, we are able to share that. 00:50:48.200 --> 00:51:00.760 And so many people, I can have a list, I don't have a list, so I can't name names anyway, but super long list of people that otherwise could never have served in other circumstances are able to serve. 00:51:01.060 --> 00:51:15.140 And the other thing that I think is so cool, and I don't know any percentages and I'm not going to pretend to, but, um, it, at least in my experience and then from listening to, to, to all of you, it sounds like it's similar for you as well. 00:51:15.140 --> 00:51:27.620 Um, where the physical church, yes, there are groups that, you know, do a Bible study or this or that, but a mass majority, it's a Sunday service and, and then next Sunday. 00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:37.120 But I feel that this online digital ministry is because of the ease of just, you're just there like so easily. 00:51:37.300 --> 00:51:49.940 I think that we have a lot higher percentage, um, at least in my experience, uh, people who are engaging throughout the week, um, and, and not just Sunday. 00:51:49.940 --> 00:51:58.320 And sometimes like four or five days a week, there's, I don't know, one and 20 people that you just see four or five days a week. 00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:09.640 And, um, it's, yeah, I think that there's a community is, um, to me, it's stronger even, and people go, you can't have real relationships online. 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:17.520 I'm like, whoa, it feels like we have deeper, more relationships, um, from my experience. 00:52:17.520 --> 00:52:25.180 Yeah, I know lots of pastors will have, you know, conversations with me, the relationships online, don't abandon gathering together. 00:52:25.180 --> 00:52:34.440 You know, that's the, the, the challenge out of, out of Hebrews and, um, you know, the, the, the biblical model of church cannot be done in, in digital space. 00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.940 And, and I, you know, I've actually, and Jade's helped me with some of those conversations. 00:52:37.940 --> 00:52:47.220 We've spent a lot of time, um, hours digging into, okay, what is the biblical foundation of, of, of a, of a church? 00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:50.140 Like, what is the Bible called the church to be? 00:52:50.640 --> 00:52:52.920 And, and, and can you do that digitally? 00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:53.740 Yeah. 00:52:53.860 --> 00:52:54.080 Yeah. 00:52:54.080 --> 00:52:54.300 Okay. 00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:58.880 So maybe the corporate worship and the teaching in the physical environment, when you do that 00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.040 digitally, it doesn't actually work. 00:53:01.040 --> 00:53:08.600 But oftentimes I think even the, the, the current model of a physical church, um, is, is just it. 00:53:08.600 --> 00:53:11.560 It's a model, you know, mega church, giga church. 00:53:11.560 --> 00:53:19.020 Those are really popular in Korea, micro location, you know, under a mud hut or under a palm tree, 00:53:19.020 --> 00:53:25.120 like three or four people gathering that's bringing revival in India to say that one model is better 00:53:25.120 --> 00:53:29.020 than another is, is, is I don't, I don't have that ability. 00:53:29.020 --> 00:53:30.420 Like that, that's not my call. 00:53:30.420 --> 00:53:36.540 It's, it's, it's, it's God's, um, you know, for, for us, for, for stadia and, and, and knowing y'all 00:53:36.540 --> 00:53:39.100 in your heart, it's, Hey, let's go back to the Bible. 00:53:39.600 --> 00:53:42.480 Let's, let's see what the Bible calls us to do. 00:53:42.820 --> 00:53:45.760 And let's figure out how to make that, make that happen. 00:53:45.940 --> 00:53:51.460 And as we look at Acts 2, we see a lot of the relational components come out in that where 00:53:51.460 --> 00:53:54.520 we're engaging with people's lives through, through prayer. 00:53:54.520 --> 00:54:00.360 We're, we're giving back into the community and helping with ways with that there's, there's 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:02.640 teaching, there's worship, there's all of these things. 00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:05.820 There's, there's being spirit led and being moved through that. 00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:12.740 Um, but, and this is the standard that we, um, are, are holding ourselves to even in the 00:54:12.740 --> 00:54:14.320 digital only expression. 00:54:14.740 --> 00:54:21.360 Let's figure out how to do these things, um, so that we can utilize this platform to maybe 00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:27.840 engage with people in a way that's not being done in our physical environments. 00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:32.720 And I just want to, you know, I want to hats off to all you guys, all three of you, the two 00:54:32.720 --> 00:54:41.140 ladies, excuse me, and Jake, uh, who are, um, doing a great work here, uh, experimenting, digging 00:54:41.140 --> 00:54:44.000 in, asking questions, trying things. 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.280 Well, you know, the rest of the world's like, you're crazy. 00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:48.420 You want to do a church in virtual reality? 00:54:48.760 --> 00:54:50.300 That's, that's, that's not real. 00:54:50.700 --> 00:54:53.020 You're abandoning, getting gathering together. 00:54:53.620 --> 00:54:58.800 You know, I, I, I literally, I had, I had a pastor tell me I was, I was sinning because 00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:03.760 he had such a theological concern with, with even doing this digital only expression. 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:08.800 Um, and, you know, he's currently broadcasting his church services online. 00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:09.400 Thank you, COVID. 00:55:09.580 --> 00:55:14.020 So I don't, I don't know really, you know, how much of it's really a theological concern 00:55:14.020 --> 00:55:16.840 versus in an opinion, especially in this COVID season. 00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:22.300 Uh, but there's, there's a lot of good that's being done in these environments and there's 00:55:22.300 --> 00:55:28.200 lots of stories of lives that are being changed and disciples that are being trained and released 00:55:28.200 --> 00:55:35.840 into disciple making environments out of doing the work that you guys are doing to help the 00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:39.560 churches, to help become the church that, that you all are. 00:55:39.560 --> 00:55:41.940 So, so thank you very much for doing this. 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.740 Hey, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to wrap here a little bit. 00:55:45.140 --> 00:55:48.320 Um, but let, let me ask this question and we'll see where this goes. 00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:53.720 The best piece of advice that, that you can get, because Stadia, we're doing digital only 00:55:53.720 --> 00:55:54.920 expressions of church. 00:55:55.120 --> 00:55:59.920 I've got planners that, that want to be the next VR church that, that are excited to dive 00:55:59.920 --> 00:56:03.760 into video gaming and everything that's involved there. 00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:10.840 And so I, I want you to give me one single piece of advice that the digital only planters 00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:14.880 that, that are listening, that they can hear, that they can process, that, that they can 00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:15.280 own. 00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:18.140 Um, Jay, why don't you go first? 00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:24.780 Um, I would say best piece of advice for somebody that's considering would be to, um, honestly, 00:56:24.780 --> 00:56:32.340 to take a large portion of time and pray about it and to have other people praying for you. 00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:37.360 Because our, like, like I said, it wasn't by, it wasn't on, on purpose. 00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:39.800 It wasn't like I said, Oh, we're going to start a digital church. 00:56:40.080 --> 00:56:45.100 We, I just was open to anything and said, God, anything, anywhere you want. 00:56:45.500 --> 00:56:52.200 And, um, we had a group that, uh, my small group that prayed for six months for me to have 00:56:52.200 --> 00:56:53.980 God say something for me to do. 00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:57.880 And, um, it, the plan was not for a digital only church. 00:56:57.880 --> 00:56:59.360 It wasn't for a church for gamers. 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.180 Um, I wish I could say I was smart enough to plan for COVID. 00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:08.740 Um, it, it was a hundred percent just prayed anything, anywhere in the world. 00:57:09.240 --> 00:57:15.960 And, um, it, I remember where I was that I felt like God is as clearly as I've ever heard 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.960 him speak said, what about a game church? 00:57:18.360 --> 00:57:21.880 And, you know, and I've, I've shared that before, but that's, that's essentially what 00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:27.620 all of this came from was every day waking up and saying, okay, God, like today, what 00:57:27.620 --> 00:57:28.740 does it look like to move forward? 00:57:28.740 --> 00:57:32.560 And whatever that is, you know, um, cause I, I'm not smart enough to know it. 00:57:32.820 --> 00:57:35.380 I can, I can put my skills. 00:57:35.620 --> 00:57:39.320 I believe that, you know, Ephesians 2 10, that we were his workmanship created in Christ 00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:41.940 Jesus for good works that he prepared in advance that we might do. 00:57:42.040 --> 00:57:45.160 So I believe he prepared me in advance to do this good work. 00:57:45.660 --> 00:57:49.820 Um, but that's still something he prepares, you know? 00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:55.260 And so if God is prepared for you to do a digital church, um, he'll already have given 00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:57.920 you skills and talents that have led you in this direction. 00:57:58.180 --> 00:58:03.680 Like, thank you for, for thinking that way, but pray, like just pray and see what God will 00:58:03.680 --> 00:58:06.220 do because at the end of the day, it's still Jesus's church. 00:58:06.220 --> 00:58:09.200 Like he is going to fund your church. 00:58:09.200 --> 00:58:12.740 He's going to give you the skills for, to do this church. 00:58:12.860 --> 00:58:18.480 And so, I mean, I, I, I'd love to show you like how we're doing it, but I think ultimately, 00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:23.660 um, if, if God's not in it, then that's really going to be your first, you know, that'll be 00:58:23.660 --> 00:58:24.420 the biggest downfall. 00:58:24.640 --> 00:58:29.100 And so I, you know, if I really had to give one, it sounds like a cop-out, but just pray 00:58:29.100 --> 00:58:29.500 about it. 00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:30.420 Like you really need to. 00:58:30.680 --> 00:58:30.820 Yeah. 00:58:31.620 --> 00:58:32.300 Don't cop out. 00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:35.920 Um, Alina, what, what piece of advice would you have? 00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:43.560 It would be, uh, if you're doing a digital only church, don't try and copy the physical 00:58:43.560 --> 00:58:44.180 church. 00:58:44.580 --> 00:58:48.160 Use, use your, use your, you know, your assets. 00:58:48.300 --> 00:58:52.720 What do you have in this, in this environment that, that you don't have there that could 00:58:52.720 --> 00:58:53.360 be used? 00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:56.280 Um, so don't try and duplicate it. 00:58:56.280 --> 00:59:04.620 Be nimble and, and, and use what you have instead of struggling to try and something else. 00:59:04.720 --> 00:59:10.140 Be open to the Lord because people show you what it is. 00:59:10.140 --> 00:59:15.020 Like, even if it takes time, like you said, it will just be like a process, but kind of 00:59:15.020 --> 00:59:16.360 almost like you're on the ride. 00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:17.540 Um, yeah. 00:59:17.540 --> 00:59:18.400 So, remember. 00:59:18.860 --> 00:59:23.400 I cannot tell you how many churches, even with church online, it's not even digital only 00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:28.080 churches, but church online, how many churches are struggling with that? 00:59:28.160 --> 00:59:32.220 This idea that we're just going to copy what we're doing in the physical space digitally. 00:59:32.220 --> 00:59:33.880 And, and why is that not working? 00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:34.700 That should work. 00:59:35.040 --> 00:59:36.000 It worked physically. 00:59:36.140 --> 00:59:37.400 Why doesn't it work digitally? 00:59:37.700 --> 00:59:40.080 And it rarely, if ever does. 00:59:40.160 --> 00:59:41.900 So that, that's a great piece of advice there. 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:48.300 Angela, um, any, uh, as we're landing the plane here, what, what piece of advice can, can you, 00:59:48.300 --> 00:59:51.740 can you give to a potential digital only church planner? 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:57.720 Listen to these wise people for sure, uh, they know what they're talking about. 00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:01.440 I would say have conversations with people that have been doing digital ministry. 01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:07.420 So you, in this video, you see digital ministry expressed in different ways, but the, the bottom 01:00:07.420 --> 01:00:12.100 line difference between these ministries and a traditional church is we're not building a 01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:14.020 personal platform with our name on it. 01:00:14.520 --> 01:00:21.200 Um, and we are building a space for people to come and to learn about Jesus every day. 01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:23.740 And the more, and that's hard work. 01:00:23.740 --> 01:00:28.120 And so most people, when they get into this and they're actually doing the work of discipleship, 01:00:28.120 --> 01:00:35.080 which is super messy because it involves people just like me with a bunch of stuff, um, then, 01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:36.560 you know, you want to quit. 01:00:36.820 --> 01:00:41.300 So you do need to pray and you do need to realize that this looks nothing like what you think it 01:00:41.300 --> 01:00:42.700 does until you're doing it. 01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:45.900 I would say come and apprentice at one of our churches. 01:00:46.680 --> 01:00:52.580 And that is a great way to see if you're, you know, if you, if it's really for you and 01:00:52.580 --> 01:00:56.980 God will lead you to the right place out of that because you're being obedient and you're 01:00:56.980 --> 01:01:02.180 called and then read what people are writing about, uh, online church, digital church. 01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:07.700 I wrote a book that's tiny, but at the beginning of COVID, because there was so many people, uh, 01:01:07.700 --> 01:01:11.300 so many of our pastors that were calling me and saying, how do I do this? 01:01:11.300 --> 01:01:13.400 And I wanted them to know it's different. 01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:17.480 It's not, um, just doing what you do in person online. 01:01:17.900 --> 01:01:22.020 There's like a whole different way of doing this and being successful and making Jesus a 01:01:22.020 --> 01:01:23.060 center of social media. 01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:27.300 Um, and then of course, know that the Holy Spirit works. 01:01:27.560 --> 01:01:32.980 He's working in your life so that you can share the gospel, but he's also working in the person's 01:01:32.980 --> 01:01:34.200 life on the other side. 01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:37.080 And so he's calling them to come. 01:01:37.300 --> 01:01:43.580 And so you never have to worry about having enough people to, to, um, to disciple and to 01:01:43.580 --> 01:01:43.880 love. 01:01:44.420 --> 01:01:49.420 Uh, where Dave was talking about the prayer and that if it's funds you need, you know, 01:01:49.520 --> 01:01:50.460 you'll supply that. 01:01:50.720 --> 01:01:53.000 Um, like you said, it's the other side as well. 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:55.920 Um, the people, he will send them. 01:01:56.300 --> 01:01:57.660 Um, you need help. 01:01:58.200 --> 01:02:00.400 He will, people will step up. 01:02:00.680 --> 01:02:02.660 Um, it's beautiful to see. 01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:04.680 And I watch it every day, you know, so that's it. 01:02:05.940 --> 01:02:07.040 That's, that's awesome. 01:02:07.180 --> 01:02:12.440 Hey, um, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and Jake, uh, this has been, this has been awesome. 01:02:12.580 --> 01:02:14.060 I've, I've, I've loved this time. 01:02:14.580 --> 01:02:19.240 Um, Angela, if somebody wanted to pick up your book, uh, where, where, where do they do that? 01:02:19.420 --> 01:02:22.800 Oh, uh, it's on Amazon backwards, online Jesus. 01:02:23.740 --> 01:02:25.000 See, it's really, it really is. 01:02:25.020 --> 01:02:27.520 It's like a, um, doesn't even have a spine. 01:02:27.700 --> 01:02:28.600 It's so small. 01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:30.220 It doesn't even have writing on the spine. 01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:31.220 Couldn't even do that. 01:02:32.500 --> 01:02:34.640 But it's, it's a, you know, overnight read. 01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:38.940 It's about our story, but also how to build community disciple and care online. 01:02:39.100 --> 01:02:41.800 So, uh, that's on Amazon, Kindle. 01:02:42.860 --> 01:02:43.780 Uh, you can go to my website. 01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:45.060 Yeah, it's all over. 01:02:45.160 --> 01:02:45.580 Thank you. 01:02:46.220 --> 01:02:47.380 Well, yeah, no problem. 01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:49.860 We'll, we'll throw links in the, in the show notes to that. 01:02:50.140 --> 01:02:52.380 And, um, and so it is a good read. 01:02:52.420 --> 01:02:56.220 I read it, uh, whenever I had you on the last part, it was a couple of weeks ago. 01:02:56.520 --> 01:02:58.140 When I, time flies, I have no idea. 01:02:58.200 --> 01:02:59.380 I don't even know what day it is today. 01:02:59.380 --> 01:03:05.420 Um, but, uh, we'll definitely, uh, you know, check out that book, dive, dive into it. 01:03:05.500 --> 01:03:06.760 Stadia is as well. 01:03:06.860 --> 01:03:09.640 Stadia is doing some digital only cohorts. 01:03:09.640 --> 01:03:15.700 Uh, and so as you're praying through this, as, as Jay recommended, if you are interested 01:03:15.700 --> 01:03:20.600 in dialoguing and digging deeper into what this idea of a digital only expression of church 01:03:20.600 --> 01:03:26.600 would be and how maybe it fits within your, your, your model, um, you know, feel free to, 01:03:26.600 --> 01:03:29.640 to, to dig in, have some conversations with us. 01:03:29.640 --> 01:03:37.940 Check out stadia church planning.org slash, uh, digital D I G I T A L, uh, or hit me up 01:03:37.940 --> 01:03:41.400 directly through social media, my contact infos in the show notes as well. 01:03:41.520 --> 01:03:45.520 Would love to dialogue, uh, with you towards us if you're interested in it. 01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:52.560 Um, it's literally my job to help replicate Jates, uh, Alina's and Angela's and others that 01:03:52.560 --> 01:03:56.460 are out there that, that are doing this work, uh, for the kingdom and digital space. 01:03:56.460 --> 01:04:02.080 So, uh, if you're thinking that way or have questions or want to dialogue, uh, feel free 01:04:02.080 --> 01:04:04.480 to, to reach out and let's have that conversation. 01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:07.780 But for each of you, like I said earlier, thanks for experimenting. 01:04:07.780 --> 01:04:13.860 Thanks for, you know, jumping in this season and doing this, um, you know, maybe over the 01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:20.080 past three years, plus or minus where there wasn't a lot of, um, support where there wasn't 01:04:20.080 --> 01:04:24.100 a lot of look for it, where people kind of thought that you were crazy in the midst of 01:04:24.100 --> 01:04:24.280 it. 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:27.880 And even now in the midst of COVID, some people probably still do think, think you're 01:04:27.880 --> 01:04:28.200 crazy. 01:04:28.660 --> 01:04:34.440 Uh, but there's the proofs in the, in the pudding or the proofs in the fruit or something awkward 01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:35.260 that I should say there. 01:04:35.260 --> 01:04:40.340 But the proof is really in these stories that, that you're, that you're telling of how you're 01:04:40.340 --> 01:04:41.440 seeing the life change. 01:04:41.600 --> 01:04:43.060 You're seeing people engage. 01:04:43.120 --> 01:04:47.100 You're seeing people start to ask questions that they weren't asking before. 01:04:47.420 --> 01:04:53.600 And so, um, you know, thankful so much for y'all's contributions into the kingdom digitally. 01:04:54.140 --> 01:04:58.680 Uh, and, and on top of that, I'll be continuing to be praying that God moves through, uh, through 01:04:58.680 --> 01:05:03.520 VR church, through love plan, through pursuit church life, uh, as well as the other churches 01:05:03.520 --> 01:05:08.900 that are doing his job physically, his kingdom, uh, physically as, as well as digitally. 01:05:08.900 --> 01:05:13.400 So thank you for being here, uh, for Jay, for Alina, for Angela, this is Jeff with the 01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:14.060 church digital. 01:05:14.560 --> 01:05:17.860 Thanks y'all for being here and, uh, we'll see you the next time here on the podcast. 01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:18.460 Y'all have a good day.