WEBVTT 00:00:00.260 --> 00:00:04.960 Episode 90 of the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planning, Jeff here. 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:09.180 All right, this podcast episode is a little special, a special place in my heart. 00:00:09.260 --> 00:00:12.120 By the way, I make a big deal. My birthday is coming up. I'm going to be 43. 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.560 This is my second birthday podcast, my first birthday podcast. 00:00:16.880 --> 00:00:22.160 I like the birthday podcast. I consider them to be a special type of person. 00:00:22.260 --> 00:00:24.920 I'm inviting them in for my birthday podcast. 00:00:25.040 --> 00:00:28.420 It's not just a run-of-the-mill person. This has to have value. 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:31.580 My first birthday podcast, as a fact, was my mother. 00:00:31.720 --> 00:00:34.360 My mother, Linda Reed, she leads two small groups. 00:00:34.440 --> 00:00:37.660 Actually, I think she's getting ready to launch a third online small group. 00:00:37.820 --> 00:00:40.060 Hey, that's like my mommy. Go back and listen. 00:00:40.420 --> 00:00:42.800 We'll throw the link in the show notes. You've got it there. 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:49.480 But for this one, Episode 90 here, yeah, we're pulling somebody who's kind of special, near and dear to my heart. 00:00:49.800 --> 00:00:52.540 Greg Nettle, President of Stadia Church Planning. 00:00:52.980 --> 00:00:56.700 Yeah, just a small little organization. You may have heard me talk about it a time or two. 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.500 Greg is visionary. 00:01:00.420 --> 00:01:01.700 Greg is a genius. 00:01:02.160 --> 00:01:05.100 Well, I call Greg a genius because he agrees with me on the digital thing. 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:06.520 Therefore, he has to be a genius. 00:01:06.700 --> 00:01:08.260 Okay, maybe some ego issues there. 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:17.940 But seriously, it's rare in my life when I find myself surrounded by people who have a vision along the same line that I am. 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:24.900 I'm used to being the guy that has to sell vision, not the guy who hears vision from others. 00:01:24.940 --> 00:01:35.340 And Greg, I just have this honor of saying, Greg and I have been on the same page since the first day that I met him some eight or nine months ago. 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:49.840 And Greg and the Stadia team has been phenomenal in this COVID experience to work with and to try to help churches, physical churches, digital churches, help them thrive, grow, multiply in this season. 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:56.100 And so Greg has been doing a church planning podcast that has been focused on digital churches. 00:01:56.620 --> 00:02:04.280 Greg has been very outspoken in this COVID season when it comes to thinking digital, being digital first. 00:02:04.500 --> 00:02:11.160 And so he's really championed this idea and enabled us with Stadia to come alongside and champion as well. 00:02:11.500 --> 00:02:13.300 And so I thought, hey, you know what? 00:02:13.340 --> 00:02:15.660 Let's actually get Greg on the podcast for my birthday. 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:16.780 It's kind of a big deal. 00:02:17.020 --> 00:02:21.680 And let's learn what he's learning in this COVID season. 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:25.900 We talk everything from digital approach, physical and digital working together. 00:02:26.100 --> 00:02:27.880 We talk digital only church planning. 00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:33.640 We're talking digital first planting, digital launch that eventually will grow into a physical campus. 00:02:33.740 --> 00:02:34.500 We're talking micro. 00:02:34.940 --> 00:02:47.360 That's the thing that I love about Greg is he is so broad in his understanding and knowledge of the different types of church that, man, it's just something that you're going to learn. 00:02:47.760 --> 00:02:48.500 You're going to have to run. 00:02:48.600 --> 00:02:51.280 You're going to have to keep up with him because he's going a million miles an hour. 00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:54.520 But the conversation is rich along the way. 00:02:54.520 --> 00:03:10.960 So for the conversation, for my birthday conversation, for episode 90 here, I'm bringing myself, Jeff with the Church Digital, and of course, Greg Nettle, president of Stadia Church Planting, in a conversation that I'm calling Digital Lessons That I've Learned in This Global Pandemic. 00:03:11.500 --> 00:03:12.800 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:21.020 Hey, just even to get started a little bit here, because the audience may not know you, you're new to the podcast here. 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.580 Just, Greg, tell us your ministry story. 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.980 Jeff, my first real ministry, it's kind of crazy. 00:03:28.100 --> 00:03:33.920 I was 23 years old, and I planted a church in Dublin, Ireland. 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:42.220 And what I did, I would never allow someone to do today, right, if they were planting with Stadia. 00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:51.720 I led a team of college students over for the summer, and then at the end of the summer, they all flew home, and I stayed by myself to launch this new church. 00:03:52.020 --> 00:04:05.340 And it was a wild experience, and one that kind of set the trajectory of my life about reaching people who are far from God, how to exegete a culture, but most importantly, my own dependence on God. 00:04:06.220 --> 00:04:08.420 Man, it was rugged and rough. 00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:10.020 It was wildly successful. 00:04:10.220 --> 00:04:13.420 You know, after two years, we had about 10 people involved in the church. 00:04:13.600 --> 00:04:20.740 So it was a really challenging time, but I learned tons about myself, about my relationship with God, and really about church planting. 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:24.220 And after that, I ran out of money at the end of two years. 00:04:24.500 --> 00:04:32.080 And, you know, back in those days, I had, you know, grandma supporting me for $15 a month, and the biggest church I had supporting me was, you know, $100 a month. 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:36.560 And I just didn't have the heart to come back and re-raise all my support for another couple years. 00:04:37.180 --> 00:04:41.320 And so this tiny church in northern Ohio called me to be their senior pastor. 00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:46.740 I was 26 years old and single, and they were desperate, about 100 people. 00:04:47.320 --> 00:04:54.660 And little did I know that I would spend the next 25 years at what's become the Rivertree Church Movement in northern Ohio. 00:04:55.140 --> 00:05:01.860 And, you know, by God's grace, over that time, we had a great run, grew from about 100 people to more than 3,000 with four campuses. 00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:05.820 And then Stadia called me, much to my surprise. 00:05:05.940 --> 00:05:08.400 I thought I'd finish out my next 20 years at Rivertree. 00:05:09.080 --> 00:05:13.580 And Stadia and God called me to become president of Stadia Church Planting. 00:05:14.060 --> 00:05:15.360 And so that's kind of it in a nutshell. 00:05:15.460 --> 00:05:33.980 So, like, from the international church struggling to growing it domestically here in the U.S., to Stadia now, where some of the lessons and the things that you've learned, you're now helping others kind of process through so that they don't make the same mistakes that you made. 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:39.140 Well, I didn't, you know, you look back over your life at what God's doing and His plan for your life. 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:41.940 And you obviously don't know it until it's revealed. 00:05:42.580 --> 00:05:53.240 But certainly, you know, the church planting that I did in Ireland and then at Rivertree, the way I even got to know Stadia was God gave me a vision to plant churches throughout Ohio. 00:05:53.700 --> 00:05:56.580 Our vision in Ohio was to make it hard to go to hell in Ohio. 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.980 And, you know, we were just blatant about Michigan can go to hell because we just don't care about them. 00:06:01.260 --> 00:06:04.760 But in Ohio, we wanted it, you know, we're going to make it hard to go to hell for them. 00:06:05.140 --> 00:06:06.740 And Stadia came alongside of us. 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:10.260 I had had enough credibility in Ohio to gather churches all over the state. 00:06:10.820 --> 00:06:22.820 And, you know, over the next 10 years of Kingdom Synergy Partnerships there and partnership with Stadia, we planted close to 50 churches throughout the state of Ohio and in South America together. 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.320 And so that was an incredible church planting experience. 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:30.500 Little, you know, knowing then, again, that I was going to become the president of Stadia. 00:06:30.940 --> 00:06:51.580 But it is all those lessons that we learn along the way that I really believe that if we're faithful in those things that God entrusts us with, be it 10 people in Ireland or 100 people in northern Ohio or a vision for church planting that started with six of us in a basement of a church, you know, in Ohio and ended up being nearly 50 church plants. 00:06:52.620 --> 00:06:56.420 And so that God just keeps entrusting us with more along the way. 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:57.500 That's awesome. 00:06:57.900 --> 00:07:05.300 I tell you, Greg, you've been influential in my life just in the eight months probably that I've known you. 00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:15.520 I can remember waking up one morning at like, well, whatever time it was, but literally in the middle of the night you had booked an appointment to meet with me like via Zoom. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.000 And I don't know who Greg Nettle is. 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:20.860 I barely know who Stadia is. 00:07:21.020 --> 00:07:29.700 And I can just remember jumping on the Zoom call with the invite to come out to Colorado to have the conversation, talk about digital only planting. 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:49.520 And just the thing that stuck with me was it's rare in my life when I have conversations with people who have the same vision that I have just in my life as God has led me towards, hey, let's champion digital. 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.600 Let's help churches figure out how to do digital. 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:56.980 Honestly, pre-COVID, digital was like a bad word in some sectors. 00:07:57.500 --> 00:08:08.580 And you, it resonated very strong with me where it was like, hey, this guy's on the same page as you were, as you are, as I am. 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:10.320 So I don't know what the language was. 00:08:10.340 --> 00:08:11.000 That was kind of weird. 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:16.260 But how did you get to this place of digital? 00:08:16.260 --> 00:08:26.160 What was your path to realize that, hey, digital is an opportunity, even pre-COVID, digital is the opportunity that we, the church, need to jump on? 00:08:26.260 --> 00:08:26.820 What were you saying? 00:08:27.080 --> 00:08:31.380 Well, I think it's an attitude we all have to look at, Jeff, in our lives. 00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:38.020 You know, I think, you know, we at Stadia and I personally value being continuous, continual learners. 00:08:38.020 --> 00:08:51.340 And, you know, what's God up to and listening enough and watching enough at what God's doing throughout the United States and ultimately around the world and learning from others, learning from the business world, Jeff. 00:08:51.580 --> 00:08:58.200 You know, this idea of scaling and digital, businesses have been doing this for decades. 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.480 And the church was just way behind on that. 00:09:01.560 --> 00:09:11.980 And I'm thinking to myself, my goodness, why aren't we thinking in those terms of scalability and using the Internet as a tool for good, for sharing the gospel and so forth? 00:09:12.540 --> 00:09:21.200 And so, you know, when I got to talk with you, it was just as fun for me because I think none of us knew, you know, we're all starting to connect and going, what if? 00:09:21.340 --> 00:09:22.480 You know, what could be? 00:09:23.560 --> 00:09:30.800 And so that was really fun when a group of us got together in a room and actually started dialoguing about that, which is what I was calling you about. 00:09:31.400 --> 00:09:35.780 But, you know, it really just was birthed out of saying, what could be? 00:09:35.860 --> 00:09:37.280 And is this a possibility? 00:09:37.280 --> 00:09:44.680 And really, for me, talking to some of my business really close friends and saying, tell me about how you're using digital. 00:09:45.260 --> 00:09:48.960 And more importantly, talk to me about the future of digital. 00:09:49.140 --> 00:09:56.420 What do you see over the next two years, five years, 10 years with digital capability and where's everything headed? 00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:05.640 And when I started hearing what was coming in the digital realm, that's when I said, we've got to start exploring this. 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:07.520 And that's what brought you and I together. 00:10:08.060 --> 00:10:08.780 I love that. 00:10:09.160 --> 00:10:15.720 And it's interesting, even pre-COVID, as we were having the conversations, I can remember I came on staff. 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:20.580 I met you physically, I want to say October, probably September, October of 2019. 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:27.920 Came on staff working with Stadia in January, six weeks before COVID hit. 00:10:28.760 --> 00:10:32.700 And those six weeks were interesting, you know, because we're literally having conversations. 00:10:32.860 --> 00:10:36.100 My title is Director of Digital Church Planting. 00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:39.960 My job is to literally plant digital-only expressions of church. 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:43.560 And pre-COVID, like, that was digital-only. 00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:44.800 What do you mean digital-only? 00:10:44.900 --> 00:10:45.720 Like, no building? 00:10:46.180 --> 00:10:48.140 You're not going to meet in physical space? 00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:52.040 You know, and literally, I had pastors tell me, like, Jeff, you're sinning. 00:10:52.380 --> 00:10:55.920 You're taking people out of the bride of Christ by doing this. 00:10:56.640 --> 00:11:04.800 Now, interestingly, a couple of those same pastors were the ones who called me after COVID, asking them to help them broadcast because they could no longer get people into the building. 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:11.420 So I'm not really sure how much of that was, like, opinion versus maybe theological concerns at the end of the day. 00:11:11.800 --> 00:11:25.320 But it's been really interesting to see how COVID has maybe made people more aware of the opinions and how there's an opportunity to overcome those opinions with thought. 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:40.740 And so I know for you, Greg, you've been doing some phenomenal podcasts through the Church Planners podcast of what you're doing and really focusing on this idea of church planting in digital space. 00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:50.520 So, you know, as you've had a lot of these conversations, and we'll link to the link in the show notes, what are you learning in this COVID season when it comes to digital planting? 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:53.980 Well, guys, there's so much to unpack here, Jeff. 00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:56.580 And again, you're kind of the guru on this. 00:11:56.740 --> 00:12:15.560 But one of the delights of being president of Stadia that I have is having the privilege of interacting with megachurches across the country and around the world, with smaller churches across the country and around the world, with digital and VR and just all these, you know, micro and prison churches. 00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:23.080 And that's one of my favorite things is just learning from everybody and networking together and then saying, okay, well, where do we head with this? 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:42.720 And one of the challenges in the United States that when I became president of Stadia that, you know, if we absolutely have to plant, we've got to get to the point where we're planting at least 10,000 churches a year in the United States, which will then, you know, play out in planting tens of thousands of churches globally at the same time. 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:57.280 Well, the challenge with that is to scale our church planting efforts in the traditional model of church planting, where it's going to cost anywhere from $400,000 to plant a church in Cleveland, Ohio, to $2 million per church in the San Francisco Bay Area. 00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:58.860 It's not scalable, right? 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:03.780 And so constantly I've been thinking and praying about how do we drive the price point down? 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.600 How do we multiply disciple making? 00:13:07.060 --> 00:13:13.220 And so, of course, we've been involved with micro churches and the house church movement and, you know, R&Ding, all of that stuff. 00:13:13.660 --> 00:13:23.900 But man, when I started thinking about digital and how that could multiply out and the price point of digital, and certainly you can spend as much as you want doing digital, 00:13:23.900 --> 00:13:28.500 but you can also spend as little as you want seriously in what I'm learning. 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.200 You know, I look at Jade Earhart, who's doing his gamification church plant. 00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:39.740 And when I first met with, you know, Jade, again, last October, I think they had, you know, maybe 80 people involved in their gaming church. 00:13:39.860 --> 00:13:46.860 And I just had Jade on our podcast and they now have 800 people, you know, involved in their church. 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:51.260 And I was talking to Jade about, you know, how much have you spent and, you know, what did it cost you? 00:13:51.280 --> 00:13:59.560 And he's like, gosh, I think we've now spent about $400 on equipment, you know, and he's not taking a salary. 00:13:59.560 --> 00:14:02.560 And he's done that intentionally because he's bivocational. 00:14:03.060 --> 00:14:09.040 But here's a guy, you know, that in our traditional model of church planting probably wouldn't even have passed assessment. 00:14:09.620 --> 00:14:11.060 And I said that to Jade, right? 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:12.300 That's what I love about him. 00:14:12.300 --> 00:14:20.260 And, you know, he's this young guy who's in the gaming world and God is using profoundly to build his church and reach people. 00:14:20.380 --> 00:14:26.100 And one of the ways Jade's doing it is he's multiplying leaders and training them in his disciple-making movement. 00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:28.360 And that's allowing them to grow rapidly. 00:14:28.940 --> 00:14:48.320 And so I think one of the drivers in this that we have to look at is just simply this way, manner of church planting is going to make church planting available to a whole generation of leaders that may not have, you know, wanted to go out and raise a million dollars to plant a church, felt called to do that. 00:14:48.680 --> 00:15:07.680 Or maybe didn't even have a different skill set than the traditional church planter has, certainly has a different vision than, you know, I was meeting with a church planter yesterday for a couple hours who's just crushing it, Patrick Holden and planting in Columbus, Ohio, but all online, you know, right now. 00:15:08.260 --> 00:15:14.140 And I just loved it when he said, you know, has anybody ever thought about reaching a million people with their church? 00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:20.180 And I said, man, I said, it's just all about dreaming and God's vision. 00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:26.720 There's no reason for us not to think in those terms these days when it comes to digital and no boundaries. 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:36.820 One of the things that drives me most crazy right now, Jeff, is when I hear someone say, yeah, but I'm stuck in a little church in Shelby, Ohio, in this little town. 00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:42.580 And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no one is stuck anywhere anymore. 00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:48.880 The digital boundaries take you everywhere that God wants you to be. 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:59.080 And so you might be based out of Shelby, Ohio, in some small town, but my goodness, you can be reaching into China and Africa and California and Detroit. 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.380 It's your imagination, which our God's a creative God and a God of imagination, right? 00:16:04.920 --> 00:16:05.800 That's so true. 00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:13.040 And even, you know, Tyler Sansom, who I know is on your podcast, he's in Cordon, Indiana, which is, you know, a small town as well. 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:18.100 And he's getting, you know, reach as well as engagement around the country. 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:24.860 And so really what we're doing in this season is we're redefining what church is. 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:26.920 Now, Jeff, let's be clear, too, though. 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.140 We're not anti-physical location. 00:16:30.640 --> 00:16:37.560 You know, it's the whole digital term, you know, that Stadia uses now that's the combination of physical and digital. 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:38.840 And I love that. 00:16:38.920 --> 00:16:44.580 Now, we have a cohort of church planners getting ready to start together that are going to be purely digital. 00:16:44.900 --> 00:16:45.580 And I love that. 00:16:45.760 --> 00:16:46.800 So you're asking me what I'm learning. 00:16:46.900 --> 00:16:49.260 Here's one of the things that I think God revealed to me recently. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:51.360 Or I just ate bad pizza. 00:16:51.860 --> 00:16:53.860 But I think it was God. 00:16:54.680 --> 00:17:01.220 And I think God said, Greg, I am not just the God, the tangible presence of God in the physical location. 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.700 I am also the tangible God in the digital space. 00:17:05.140 --> 00:17:07.640 And my kingdom doesn't know boundaries. 00:17:07.900 --> 00:17:09.980 And I think we have to recognize that. 00:17:10.280 --> 00:17:17.180 As we listen to a podcast together, as we're on a Zoom call together, the tangible presence of God is with us. 00:17:17.180 --> 00:17:21.300 It's wherever there are believers gathered, that's where Jesus is. 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:26.720 And so, be it in a physical location, but certainly also in a digital. 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:32.900 And I think theologically, we have to recognize that and take advantage of that. 00:17:33.580 --> 00:17:40.120 And so, when we think about moving forward and the opportunities, I think we have to look at both of those spaces. 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:49.900 If our digital expression of God doesn't play out in our real-time lives every day, then I would say we're not making disciples, right? 00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:50.960 We all agree on that. 00:17:51.340 --> 00:17:58.560 But if our digital expression is playing out in that, in our real lives, then I'd say we're absolutely making disciples. 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:09.400 And conversely, if my real life isn't reflecting Jesus in my digital presence, then I'd say we're not making disciples, right? 00:18:09.460 --> 00:18:11.800 And so, this is really important. 00:18:12.120 --> 00:18:21.800 It's all wrapped up in one because, you know, the boundaries between digital and physical are going to become blurrier and blurrier over the next several years. 00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:22.340 Yeah. 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:23.360 And so, you're right. 00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:24.620 It goes two ways towards that. 00:18:24.780 --> 00:18:27.060 We have a, you know, I used to phrase passport. 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:28.200 We've got a digital passport. 00:18:28.300 --> 00:18:29.260 We have a physical passport. 00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:33.140 We have to show that in both ways. 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:45.940 And it's one of the things I love about Stadia towards, hey, let's help churches, physical churches understand digital, understand the strengths of physical, the strengths of digital, and how they work together towards that. 00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:58.280 And it's been awesome working with churches in the season towards that, even to the point of digital church planning, like you're talking about with Patrick and Jade and some of these others starting cohorts. 00:18:58.360 --> 00:19:03.660 People ask me all the time, hey, how's Stadia doing this year in the midst of this pandemic and so forth? 00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:10.660 And, you know, by God's grace and with all of you who are listening, your partnership, we're having our best year in the history of the organization. 00:19:10.860 --> 00:19:12.980 You know, we'll plant more than 400 churches this year. 00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:21.240 And that's largely because we're watching church planters who have the spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship and tenacity. 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:23.720 And they're saying, God's called us to plant a church. 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:24.800 We're going to figure it out. 00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:41.520 And I love seeing them, their ideas and the creativity they're using via YouTube and Zoom and social media and all of these different avenues to plant churches, launch churches that may have a physical presence, may not have a physical presence. 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:45.460 You know, but the idea is they believe in advancing the gospel. 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:53.680 And so, you know, I think back, okay, when we think about the necessity of the church moving forward, I'll never forget when I was at Rivertree. 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:55.140 So I don't remember at the time. 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:56.820 We're running 2,000 people or whatever. 00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:58.340 We have one building. 00:19:58.460 --> 00:19:59.400 It's a big building. 00:19:59.540 --> 00:20:02.500 We've done the big building, you know, campaign, $10 million, whatever. 00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:04.040 But we're out of space. 00:20:04.520 --> 00:20:08.580 And so we're thinking, you know, okay, we're going to put up the $70 million campus. 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:09.480 True story, right? 00:20:09.540 --> 00:20:15.040 And we have Visioneering come out and they do the charrette and all the stuff, you know, and we spend the money with them. 00:20:15.260 --> 00:20:19.480 We have the farm we're going to buy, 100 acres and so forth. 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:34.300 And I remember having one of those God experiences as I'm praying and saying, man, at the end of my days, do I want to be able to look back on my ministry legacy and say, God, look at this amazing campus we built. 00:20:34.620 --> 00:20:36.900 $70 million campus when it's all built out. 00:20:37.220 --> 00:20:39.080 10,000 people are in attendance. 00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:40.140 They're being discipled. 00:20:40.260 --> 00:20:41.680 Man, this is great stuff, right? 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:44.460 Phenomenal children's ministry, teen ministry. 00:20:44.580 --> 00:20:45.460 I love all that. 00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:54.620 Or do I want to look back on my legacy and see the divorce rate drop in the communities? 00:20:55.060 --> 00:21:01.440 Do I want to see the adoption, you know, the foster care system empty because we've adopted all the children out of foster care? 00:21:01.800 --> 00:21:11.900 Do we want to see the prison rate go down because we are actually working with troubled youth and teens and all of those things? 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:14.240 And it suddenly struck me, I wanted the latter. 00:21:15.460 --> 00:21:20.720 I wanted to hear God say, well done for life transformation, not for a bunch of buildings. 00:21:20.800 --> 00:21:22.940 Now, I'm not, again, anti-building at all. 00:21:23.020 --> 00:21:24.200 We were in a big building. 00:21:24.620 --> 00:21:27.300 But that led us to multi-site, okay? 00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:29.540 And we were one of the first churches that went multi-site. 00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:36.600 And so it's just innovating in a time, and thank God, because that was right before the economy crashed. 00:21:36.840 --> 00:21:40.860 And so thank God we didn't, you know, go down that path in retrospect. 00:21:41.340 --> 00:21:49.620 But I'll never forget standing in front of Rivertree at all of our gatherings, weekend gatherings, and saying, hey, we are not going to buy the farm. 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.340 We're going to pour our resources into the community. 00:21:52.340 --> 00:21:55.060 We're going to move multi-site, reach out, and da-da-da-da. 00:21:55.580 --> 00:22:01.440 And in every gathering, people stood up and cheered God and applauded at that decision. 00:22:01.860 --> 00:22:12.520 I think we're at one of those times again where we're going to look at this and say, okay, how can we further advance the gospel, transform lives in an even more effective way? 00:22:12.520 --> 00:22:17.160 And so, you know, if I were still in a physical location, I wouldn't stop that physical location. 00:22:17.580 --> 00:22:31.020 I would just say, how can digital be used now to help us as a tool to make better disciples, to use micro-gatherings, you know, so that we don't have to bring everybody into one location every week. 00:22:31.020 --> 00:22:43.000 But now we can have 1,000 micro-gatherings of 8 to 20 people in homes going on at the same time who are part of our, you know, the local church and serve together and transform the community. 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:47.620 And I think that opportunity is a game changer for the future of the church. 00:22:48.120 --> 00:22:50.280 Yeah, there's definitely a drawing. 00:22:50.840 --> 00:22:53.860 We see it where it's online to offline. 00:22:53.960 --> 00:23:00.020 The gospel that we learn in our online world has to influence, has to affect our offline relationships. 00:23:00.020 --> 00:23:04.800 And so, you know, we talked about this two-way, the physical and the digital. 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:10.700 As we're processing and doing things digitally, it's going to exude itself in the real world. 00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:15.220 And so things like micro-locations definitely play a part of it. 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:21.980 Similarly, a church in this season, a physical church, utilizing digital to connect to the community. 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:29.500 Man, what an incredible opportunity we have now to think outside of the building and find more creative ways to get into the community. 00:23:29.500 --> 00:23:33.240 Kerry Newhoff just wrote an article about this this week. 00:23:33.320 --> 00:23:34.340 I'll put it in the show notes. 00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:39.600 It was like eight reasons why churches of today are going to, churches of tomorrow are going to fail, whatever. 00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:42.020 He's so good at creating those lists, right? 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:47.600 But one of them was centered around the idea of the locus of ministry. 00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:52.140 The focus of your ministry cannot be in the physical building. 00:23:52.580 --> 00:23:54.840 Like even setting aside the digital step. 00:23:55.280 --> 00:23:59.740 Like there was a season and actually a church up in your neighborhoods who gave me the idea, Crossroads over in Cincinnati. 00:24:00.260 --> 00:24:02.360 Hey, we're not calling them campus pastors anymore. 00:24:02.840 --> 00:24:03.800 You're community pastors. 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.300 You're not pastor of the people in this building. 00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:09.280 You're pastor of everybody out there. 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:10.540 Go meet people. 00:24:10.660 --> 00:24:13.660 Go engage people and get out of the building. 00:24:13.820 --> 00:24:21.400 Having that missional approach, even in the physical realm, to start to engage and pastor people physically. 00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:38.800 Yeah, I think, Jeff, one of the most important things that we've been learning and one of the light bulbs that went off for me personally, and I think for all of Stadia, and that I'm trying to share with as many church leaders as I possibly can, is we've got to quit thinking of church as location and to start thinking of it as platform, right? 00:24:39.300 --> 00:24:44.640 And so, you know, historically, we've looked at a church as a location and people come to us. 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:54.320 When we start thinking of church as platform, you can have a location, but I would start thinking of it as multiple locations and communities that you're engaging. 00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:56.560 So, you know, so that's multi-site. 00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:58.920 But then I'm thinking, and let me make it very personal. 00:24:59.320 --> 00:25:00.940 So my mom's 81 years old. 00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:07.720 Her health, she'd been in great health up until recently, but at the beginning of this pandemic, her health started failing, okay? 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:13.440 So she's been in and out of the hospital and out of rehabilitation centers over the last five months. 00:25:13.540 --> 00:25:16.200 In fact, she's in a new rehabilitation center today. 00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:17.400 Here's the deal. 00:25:17.800 --> 00:25:20.340 My mom cannot go to church, okay? 00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:22.740 Number one, she's highly at risk for COVID. 00:25:22.860 --> 00:25:24.820 So even if the church is regathering, she can't go. 00:25:25.180 --> 00:25:27.640 But number two, she's not in a physical locale to do that. 00:25:27.780 --> 00:25:37.680 However, if our local church looked at themselves further, even, you know, dreaming about platform, there are rehabilitation centers all over our community here. 00:25:37.780 --> 00:25:49.340 What if they were broadcasting in the weekly gatherings into those rehabilitation centers for all those patients during COVID and beyond? 00:25:49.860 --> 00:25:55.320 And so those people could gather and, you know, be the church together in those centers. 00:25:55.320 --> 00:25:57.800 And so I think it's, how do we think creatively? 00:25:58.140 --> 00:26:07.300 How do we take our gatherings into prisons and start prison gatherings, which, you know, we're watching, you know, churches do even now? 00:26:07.560 --> 00:26:10.240 How do we think about the church's platform? 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:15.700 How do we think to ourselves, oh my gosh, we have 10 people, you know, meeting in India? 00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:16.600 It's crazy. 00:26:17.060 --> 00:26:19.260 But how do we disciple that leader? 00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:28.940 I was talking to a church planner recently, and they now have people listening, joining their weekend broadcast gatherings from like seven different states. 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:33.600 And he said, you know, would you wait or would you start to try to build community there? 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:47.560 And I said, look, when I was pastor at Rivertree, one of the things I did in the early, all through the ministry there, is I was always discipling, you know, six, eight, 10 men and women leaders to multiply leadership throughout the church. 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:52.280 I said, and we don't, we'd meet one hour a week or two hours a week, and we'd do that discipleship. 00:26:52.360 --> 00:26:54.680 So at the end of the year, they'd be ready to do the same. 00:26:55.040 --> 00:26:57.480 Now, online, you can do the same thing. 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.720 Find those people in those states right now, right? 00:27:01.120 --> 00:27:01.940 You're going to be my leader. 00:27:02.020 --> 00:27:02.900 I'm going to be discipling. 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:04.380 Pick five or six of them. 00:27:04.800 --> 00:27:16.680 Meet with them once a week online on Zoom to disciple them so that they can become those, to use your term and Brian Tom's terms, community pastors in that state. 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:21.420 There's no reason not to multiply out right now everywhere. 00:27:22.220 --> 00:27:37.480 Yeah, there is so much power if we, the church, would embrace, if we would really take on this idea of discipleship online and realize that through reach, through engagement, we can really create disciple makers through these virtual spaces. 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:46.600 And the internet becomes a distribution network for the gospel where we are now creating and birthing new things in the physical or in the digital only realm. 00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:50.240 I love this idea of church's platform. 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:55.340 And I've spent so much time through the podcast and blogs really talking about it. 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.220 But it really, it comes down to this idea of church. 00:27:59.360 --> 00:28:11.240 We have to give up this idea of doing ministry, of doing services, of being, of doing church, and instead start to empower others to be the church. 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:15.400 You know, I even fall back on Airbnb and we've, we've, I've wrote a blog about this. 00:28:15.460 --> 00:28:16.200 We'll throw it in the show notes. 00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:25.080 But Airbnb essentially makes more than the top five hotel chains combined. 00:28:25.800 --> 00:28:29.400 They, Airbnb does not have any hotel property. 00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:31.460 They do not have any cleaning crews. 00:28:31.600 --> 00:28:35.800 They have little to no employee structures on staff. 00:28:36.280 --> 00:28:44.420 Airbnb crowdsources a platform that enables other people to rent out their homes, their spaces, whatever. 00:28:44.900 --> 00:28:46.980 And that's how Airbnb makes money. 00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:53.600 Not off providing the service, but providing an opportunity for others to provide the service. 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:59.160 And I just get stuck on this idea of what if the church took that approach? 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:06.180 What if instead of building these mega buildings, or even in the season as we're trying to put all the energy towards going back into the buildings, 00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:13.820 what if we learned something and started to break the church up into smaller, more personal ways, 00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:20.840 and then get connected into communities, get connected into areas that maybe your church wouldn't even be able to reach into. 00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:25.740 But if we did it by discipling and training others and unleashing them to go, 00:29:26.320 --> 00:29:32.920 I mean, what a, what a huge potential the church would have if, if we would look at church differently in the season. 00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:36.700 Well, I think Jeff too, the, I, for me, it's very appealing. 00:29:37.220 --> 00:29:44.300 My wife and I have talked about this throughout COVID, but, you know, what if we, rather than going to the big auditorium of our, 00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:47.520 of the local church that we're part of for the weekend, 00:29:48.120 --> 00:29:53.380 what if we invited three or four or five other families and said, let's be the church. 00:29:53.860 --> 00:29:58.740 And we just met in one another's homes, rotate it, you know, every weekend. 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:02.380 And we gather and we actually have brunch together. 00:30:02.560 --> 00:30:07.940 And then we engage with the digital church online, our local church, their presence online. 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:13.540 But then the thing that I love is now the local church could actually set up even serving projects for, 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:16.160 you know, a hundred micro churches like us. 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:17.740 And we all gather to serve together. 00:30:18.100 --> 00:30:20.320 And here's the thing I was thinking about my neighbor who, 00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:25.600 who, who just isn't interested in coming to the big auditorium with me at a weekend gathering. 00:30:25.940 --> 00:30:29.680 I actually think he'd be very interesting if I'd invite him over to brunch and say, 00:30:29.780 --> 00:30:32.700 by the way, we're going to be, you know, doing this church thing online, 00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:36.880 just watching, you know, an hour together and then discussing what was taught and so forth. 00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:38.580 I think he'd be very open to that. 00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:44.400 So I think we have to think in those terms of how can we, you know, do outreach and discipleship. 00:30:44.800 --> 00:30:49.820 But what, back to your point, it's empowering people to be those leaders. 00:30:49.820 --> 00:30:52.780 And I actually think, you know, theologically, again, the oikos, 00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:54.880 the house church movement in the New Testament. 00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:57.340 I mean, it's very biblical. 00:30:57.700 --> 00:30:58.880 That was how the church multiplied. 00:30:59.540 --> 00:31:00.480 So, so true there. 00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:02.400 It's, it's fascinating. 00:31:03.060 --> 00:31:05.780 And even, even shifting a little bit here. 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.540 One of the things that, that I love about Stadia, 00:31:09.540 --> 00:31:11.880 and actually I was talking with a planner yesterday, 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:14.820 yesterday, and he was, he was starting to ask me, 00:31:14.900 --> 00:31:17.220 it's not a Stadia planner, it's a planner with another organization. 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:22.620 And he was asking me digital type questions, like digital first, 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:23.880 hey, I'm trying to plant. 00:31:24.260 --> 00:31:26.460 And, and I just asked him, I was like, 00:31:26.540 --> 00:31:30.280 hey, the organization that, that you're, you're, you're working with, 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.380 are they coaching you? 00:31:32.420 --> 00:31:33.100 Are they talking? 00:31:33.300 --> 00:31:34.920 Like, what, what are they telling you? 00:31:35.380 --> 00:31:38.280 And, and, and the guy, the guy says to me, this is, this is unfortunate. 00:31:38.280 --> 00:31:42.040 But the guy says, honestly, Jeff, that organization's been AWOL. 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:43.000 It's been absent. 00:31:43.120 --> 00:31:43.740 It's been dark. 00:31:43.740 --> 00:31:47.020 They haven't, they haven't said anything, anything towards this. 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:50.700 And so, and so I kind of gave him some coaching advice, 00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:54.480 and we're trying to figure out how to, to help how we can in the position, 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:55.920 you know, that we're in, of course. 00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.340 But it's, it's, it's one of these things where it's, 00:31:59.580 --> 00:32:04.560 it's gotta be hard in, in, in a season like this to, 00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:09.520 to lead an organization like where you are. 00:32:09.520 --> 00:32:11.940 Stadia is, is uniquely positioned, 00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:15.120 and we're already having conversations about multiple platforms, 00:32:15.520 --> 00:32:19.060 multiple types of church, everything from, you know, the normal church, 00:32:19.180 --> 00:32:21.080 whatever normal is, to the, the micro. 00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:22.240 I know there's cohorts with that. 00:32:22.320 --> 00:32:23.320 Digital, there's cohorts. 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:27.580 Like, we've been very experimental towards that. 00:32:28.280 --> 00:32:32.420 But really, like, you don't see that often in, in other, 00:32:32.520 --> 00:32:36.220 as I talk with other planning organizations, it's, it's kind of rare. 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:40.140 Well, and obviously, Jeff, you know, I love all church planting 00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:43.880 and the organizations that God's privileged us to partner with. 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:48.920 And I just think back, you know, to last year, because it was, it was, it's so recent. 00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:56.940 But again, by God's grace, you know, because I really think that when we brought 10 leaders from 00:32:56.940 --> 00:33:02.000 the tech industry, and you were part of it, the church world, and, you know, 00:33:02.080 --> 00:33:07.420 but Pat Gelsinger from the CEO of VMware, one of the loud, largest software companies in the world, 00:33:07.420 --> 00:33:11.700 and Scott Beck, who's a serial entrepreneur and involved in digital platforms. 00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:18.000 And, you know, we all gathered together in a room for 36 hours and started dreaming about digital church. 00:33:18.040 --> 00:33:22.360 And I think as church planters, we have to constantly be innovating and saying, 00:33:22.520 --> 00:33:29.820 what's God up to and how do we advance the gospel in a, in a way that is meaningful and effective? 00:33:30.280 --> 00:33:32.360 You know, here's, here's the, here's the deal. 00:33:32.360 --> 00:33:38.940 I think, I think that people are looking, I think, here's, here's my word to the existing church 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:41.080 that's existing in the physical realm right now. 00:33:41.660 --> 00:33:44.480 I don't believe church will ever be the same again. 00:33:44.620 --> 00:33:48.680 You can try to do church like you, you, you've always done it and so forth. 00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:52.220 And, and some of you will do that and you'll have a modicum of success. 00:33:52.520 --> 00:33:57.940 But the reality is once people have tasted digital and they get the, you know, 00:33:57.940 --> 00:34:03.040 they can see that God's real in that, um, I have to go, okay, why are people, 00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:04.360 why are we gathering physically? 00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:06.800 And I preached at a church physically this past weekend. 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:11.120 And I have to tell you, um, it was good to be back together. 00:34:11.120 --> 00:34:14.580 And even though we were social distanced and had masks on, you know, 00:34:14.620 --> 00:34:19.300 before I preached and everything, um, it was still good to be. 00:34:19.660 --> 00:34:20.560 And here's what I think. 00:34:21.180 --> 00:34:29.000 In the tangible presence of God and in the tangible presence of people in a physical space. 00:34:29.120 --> 00:34:29.400 Okay. 00:34:29.520 --> 00:34:34.600 I think that's important, but here's what I think for the future with digital. 00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:40.400 I think you also can experience the tangible presence of God in the digital space. 00:34:40.720 --> 00:34:45.600 And you can also experience the tangible presence of people in the physical space. 00:34:45.860 --> 00:34:52.040 So what I would encourage churches to do is if you're going to be in a physical location and 00:34:52.040 --> 00:34:57.840 it's a both and physical and digital in the physical realm, ask yourself, what can we deliver 00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:04.420 in the tangible presence of God in the tangible presence of people that we can't deliver online? 00:35:05.120 --> 00:35:09.520 And so as I'm looking at it, well, gosh, I think what I would want is more time before 00:35:09.520 --> 00:35:15.900 the gathering began or more time after the gathering finished so that we could hug physically when 00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:20.180 this is all over and that we can converse and maybe have the food trucks. 00:35:20.260 --> 00:35:22.580 And I know a lot of churches are doing that kind of stuff now. 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.840 So think through that even more. 00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:32.360 What can we deliver in those two areas that would make Greg Nettle, you know, go, man, 00:35:32.420 --> 00:35:34.320 I need to be part of that physical gathering. 00:35:34.620 --> 00:35:39.500 But then on the flip side, digitally, I think we need to be asking, how can we deliver the 00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:45.460 tangible presence of God and the tangible presence of people in ways that they can't do it in 00:35:45.460 --> 00:35:46.560 a physical location? 00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:49.240 And there are lots of things to do that. 00:35:49.580 --> 00:35:53.640 Man, I'll tell you what, I've done a lot of teaching online for different churches, you 00:35:53.640 --> 00:35:56.740 know, recorded sermon, weekend gathering sermons for them. 00:35:57.160 --> 00:35:59.700 I've had a ball being creative in my teaching. 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:04.160 You know, I'm teaching out at Jonah and I'm recording with just in a pitch black room with 00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:07.080 a candle under my chin, like I'm in the belly of the whale, right? 00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:12.220 Now, and then I'm going and I'm standing in front of a stone wall because now I'm Paul in 00:36:12.220 --> 00:36:13.040 prison teaching. 00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:17.180 And then I'm in out in the woods somewhere because I'm now I'm Adam and, you know, the 00:36:17.180 --> 00:36:17.940 Garden of Eden. 00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:23.280 And I'm doing all that in one teaching setting with my iPhone, you know, and it's and it's 00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:24.800 amazingly, it's low cost. 00:36:24.940 --> 00:36:26.960 But man, it is cool to watch. 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:33.220 And not that I'm some great communicator, but you can be really creative with your communication 00:36:33.220 --> 00:36:34.220 in the digital space. 00:36:34.580 --> 00:36:37.700 I can't pull that off in the physical location. 00:36:38.060 --> 00:36:42.560 OK, I can maybe do the candle with Jonah, but the other things are a lot tougher to create 00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:45.920 all those spaces in a 30 minute teaching time or 20 minute whatever you do. 00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.460 So start thinking in terms of what can I do in the digital? 00:36:49.580 --> 00:36:56.100 What opportunities do I have in that digital space to actually bring about the tangible presence 00:36:56.100 --> 00:37:00.180 of God and people in a more creative way than we can even do it in the physical way? 00:37:00.520 --> 00:37:04.980 But in the physical space, what can I do to do those same things that they can't do in 00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:05.580 digital realm? 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:09.320 Take advantage of both is what I'm encouraging churches to do. 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:10.660 No, I love that. 00:37:10.740 --> 00:37:16.040 Hey, and I want to pull on that thread just a little bit because we've had that conversation, 00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:21.580 not literally the guy in the whale, Jonah, but let me use that as an example here. 00:37:22.020 --> 00:37:27.700 So the content that you created, the engaging, the environment, it's, you know, dark candle. 00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:29.160 It's like you're in the whale. 00:37:29.680 --> 00:37:33.860 So the idea of doing that on church online, I think is phenomenal. 00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:40.080 What if, and part of by thinking digital first, scalable, we've had conversations like, 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:46.560 hey, that teaching, do it digitally, but instead of preaching it real, maybe show it physically 00:37:46.560 --> 00:37:48.000 in the physical building as well. 00:37:48.660 --> 00:37:50.260 Talk to me, because I'm just curious. 00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:54.780 The Jonah video in the room instead of preaching, what are you thinking? 00:37:54.780 --> 00:38:00.580 I'm thinking that our people in this COVID season, if they're engaging online with digital 00:38:00.580 --> 00:38:06.160 church, they're going to be used to that when we come back to regathering. 00:38:06.980 --> 00:38:09.320 And I think it's going to give you more opportunity. 00:38:09.560 --> 00:38:14.480 Now, maybe you don't even have to do it every, you know, time you gather, but maybe you do 00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:18.240 it 50% of the time where you're doing a really cool creative teaching. 00:38:18.660 --> 00:38:25.540 Now, as someone who, you know, did multiple weekend gathering teachings a weekend for 25 years, 00:38:25.660 --> 00:38:31.160 Jeff, I'll tell you what, the idea of me being able to record a really cool teaching ahead of time 00:38:31.160 --> 00:38:36.860 at the beach or out in my front yard or wherever, and then not having even to be at the gathering 00:38:36.860 --> 00:38:42.440 on the weekend, that's going to keep us healthier as church leaders a lot longer than trying to be 00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:46.120 at four weekend gatherings or five or three or two, whatever you're doing. 00:38:46.120 --> 00:38:50.580 Or even if it's just one and, you know, there's leaders out there who are preaching, you know, 00:38:50.660 --> 00:38:54.560 48 weekends a year and they're frying, they're burning out. 00:38:55.080 --> 00:38:58.180 Take advantage of the digital that people have gotten used to. 00:38:58.540 --> 00:39:01.060 The key is it has to be something different. 00:39:01.240 --> 00:39:06.560 It has to, if you're, if you're just going to stand at a podium and teach, don't put that 00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:09.960 on video, do that live in your, in your auditorium. 00:39:10.040 --> 00:39:16.140 I mean, nobody wants to watch it, but if you're going to do something creative, do that on video 00:39:16.140 --> 00:39:19.280 in your auditorium and, and, and take advantage of that. 00:39:19.680 --> 00:39:20.280 Love, love that. 00:39:20.580 --> 00:39:21.980 That's a, that's a great idea. 00:39:22.040 --> 00:39:27.700 And really that was the heart behind, you know, and talking about 48 sermons a week, three, 00:39:27.860 --> 00:39:31.980 four, you know, services a weekend that, that adds up over time. 00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:37.680 But if, if we can, if we can scale the teaching digitally, you know, now you, you can send 00:39:37.680 --> 00:39:40.160 that out to, uh, to micro campuses. 00:39:40.160 --> 00:39:44.280 You, you can send that out to different, we're already doing that essentially with multi-site 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:49.360 campuses anyway, um, going that approach, but adding that creative element, something that 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:51.980 you can, you cannot get in the physical realm. 00:39:51.980 --> 00:39:58.420 It would be very hard to black out an entire room, um, have a candle over and do something 00:39:58.420 --> 00:40:04.580 like that in the physical space for an entire message, but you can do that digitally so well. 00:40:04.580 --> 00:40:10.620 And now it can scale and really become a powerful influence, whether digitally or physically. 00:40:10.620 --> 00:40:16.220 Yeah, no, I, I was saying to this, this young guy yesterday is, uh, I believe our God is 00:40:16.220 --> 00:40:18.520 a very creative God theologically. 00:40:18.520 --> 00:40:18.860 Right. 00:40:18.980 --> 00:40:23.120 And so I think we need to be a reflection of that creativity. 00:40:23.500 --> 00:40:28.400 Um, I would say both in our weekend gatherings in a physical space, as well as our, uh, 00:40:28.420 --> 00:40:34.680 our, our digital gatherings, whatever that is, creativity is key and people in our society 00:40:34.680 --> 00:40:37.880 right now, they are just yearning for that. 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.100 And they're used to that if they're binging Netflix or whatever they're, you know, sports, 00:40:42.220 --> 00:40:42.940 sporting events. 00:40:43.340 --> 00:40:47.300 Um, and, and not to say, well, we've got to placate to the culture. 00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:48.500 That's not it. 00:40:48.580 --> 00:40:53.180 It's just a matter of how do we reach as many people as possible in the most effective way 00:40:53.180 --> 00:40:55.620 possible with the good news of Jesus Christ. 00:40:55.620 --> 00:40:57.700 And how do we multiply them as disciples? 00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:03.140 And for me, it's a lot more engaging and enjoyable if someone is doing it in a creative 00:41:03.140 --> 00:41:06.640 way, rather than just sitting and talking to me for an hour. 00:41:06.980 --> 00:41:09.340 That's, that's so, so true right there. 00:41:09.500 --> 00:41:12.940 Well, Hey, I, I got you like you're in this conversation. 00:41:12.940 --> 00:41:16.520 So, and it would be miss of me to not ask about leadership. 00:41:16.520 --> 00:41:18.080 So let's, let's shift over to leadership. 00:41:18.080 --> 00:41:19.900 Let's, let's talk about some stuff. 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:25.760 You're, you're leading a, a major national organization, church planning, thousand churches, 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:27.620 scaling hockey, sticking up. 00:41:28.080 --> 00:41:31.880 Um, like what's it like in this season? 00:41:32.120 --> 00:41:34.820 Uh, there's, there's turmoil all over the place. 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:36.000 COVID race. 00:41:36.140 --> 00:41:42.140 Like it's, it's a very difficult season, but what's it like leading an organization, um, 00:41:42.200 --> 00:41:43.280 like this for the season? 00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:47.520 Well, so again, Jeff, I think it's going to come back onto how, how do we look at times 00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:53.480 like this, but it's really all times and saying, okay, we can kind of slumber and just kind 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:56.460 of sit on our laurels during this time or even retreat a bit. 00:41:57.100 --> 00:42:02.440 Um, but I think the better way is saying, what opportunities does this provide? 00:42:02.580 --> 00:42:06.260 So for instance, Stadia, you know, we do tons of global church planting. 00:42:06.560 --> 00:42:11.940 Um, and one of the ways we do that is we take leaders on vision trips and, and show them the 00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:16.100 church plants in India or South America or Africa or Thailand. 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:21.020 And we take trips there and show them, well, we can't, you know, all of our global travel 00:42:21.020 --> 00:42:22.560 has been canceled for the entire year. 00:42:22.820 --> 00:42:23.980 And so what do we do? 00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:26.660 Well, it's something we should have done two years ago, quite frankly. 00:42:27.020 --> 00:42:31.940 Um, we should have been developing virtual vision trips two years ago, but everything 00:42:31.940 --> 00:42:34.120 was going so well, we weren't thinking about it. 00:42:34.120 --> 00:42:39.240 Well, now I'm so excited because, you know, in this year we'll be starting our first virtual 00:42:39.240 --> 00:42:41.800 vision trips, man, this is going to be so fun. 00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:43.040 So think about this. 00:42:43.040 --> 00:42:48.180 So, you know, normally the cost of going to India and the amount of time, uh, it's brutal. 00:42:48.580 --> 00:42:51.260 Um, and I've done that and it's great. 00:42:51.340 --> 00:42:53.220 There's nothing, nothing takes the place. 00:42:53.220 --> 00:42:56.480 Don't get me wrong of the physical trip and so forth, but you know what? 00:42:56.560 --> 00:43:00.840 Well, there's tons of people that can't, can't make that trip and, or they don't, they're 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:06.380 not going to make it, but I give me three hours now and we'll take you on a virtual vision 00:43:06.380 --> 00:43:09.480 trip to plant a church in India and you will be astonished. 00:43:09.580 --> 00:43:13.100 Well, you know, what, what if you send somebody a package ahead of time and you say, okay, 00:43:13.100 --> 00:43:17.300 open package number one now and, um, light that incense that's in that package. 00:43:17.300 --> 00:43:20.220 And that's going to give you the smell of the streets that we're on in India. 00:43:20.580 --> 00:43:25.900 And, um, later on, we're going to take communion together in India and we're all online and we're 00:43:25.900 --> 00:43:31.380 actually seeing the streets of, you know, Calcutta or we're in Nepal together and, and, and we're 00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:35.620 going to take communion, but we're going to use non bread and juice, you know, and it's 00:43:35.620 --> 00:43:38.500 going to be something local that they would use as communion. 00:43:38.500 --> 00:43:41.160 And that's in our packet we sent out in advance, you know? 00:43:41.240 --> 00:43:46.760 And so I'm, I'm just saying, man, the opportunities to be creative, as you watch, some organizations 00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:51.660 are dying during this time and some are flourishing and that's the way it's always been church. 00:43:51.660 --> 00:43:53.400 We have to flourish. 00:43:53.700 --> 00:43:55.120 We have to flourish. 00:43:55.120 --> 00:44:00.720 And so think in terms of the opportunities that are available to us, not in terms of the 00:44:00.720 --> 00:44:06.560 negatives and the challenges and the opportunities to engage people in new and different ways. 00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.100 And so one of the best ways to do that, Jeff, man, I'm just going to shamelessly plug, you 00:44:11.100 --> 00:44:15.680 know, we have these digital cohorts at Stadia right now where I, it's one of the most fun 00:44:15.680 --> 00:44:19.460 things that I think, I think you, you would, you know, shout this out because you're leading 00:44:19.460 --> 00:44:24.080 them, but you know, it's where cohorts are, people together, they're, they're, they're learning 00:44:24.080 --> 00:44:28.280 about, they're being coached by you and others on how to do digital and digital and make the 00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:28.760 transition. 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:32.500 And I think we have, I don't know, close to 150 churches in those right now and they're, it's 00:44:32.500 --> 00:44:35.180 growing like crazy right now, but here's why I brought that up. 00:44:35.420 --> 00:44:39.560 The coolest thing is, is that you're in a cohort of, let's say eight people, eight leaders 00:44:39.560 --> 00:44:44.460 from eight different churches and with your peers and you're hearing their ideas and, and 00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:47.020 you're here and you're able to bounce your ideas off. 00:44:47.040 --> 00:44:51.080 And sometimes people will go, man, that's a stupid idea or man, that is cool. 00:44:51.080 --> 00:44:52.680 And I want to try that. 00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:58.120 Here's an idea that, so we've got this, this, this church planner I met with yesterday and 00:44:58.120 --> 00:45:02.320 I, um, he's telling me that, you know, they're, cause they're crushing it with social 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:03.760 media and all their online stuff. 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.980 And I said, who's doing all that stuff for you? 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:10.280 And he said, well, I am, and my wife is, and then this other staff person, you know, and 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:11.500 they're in brand new church plant. 00:45:11.580 --> 00:45:13.660 They, you know, they haven't even launched physically and stuff. 00:45:13.660 --> 00:45:15.460 And so they're stretched to the limits. 00:45:15.460 --> 00:45:20.640 And then I know of a church, one of our church partners at Stadia, that's a mega church and 00:45:20.640 --> 00:45:23.220 they have a myriad of resources. 00:45:23.220 --> 00:45:29.100 They have multiple people on their tech team and all kinds of admins and social media people. 00:45:29.300 --> 00:45:34.300 And they're using that stuff, but they're not being fully utilized in the digital realm. 00:45:34.520 --> 00:45:39.940 And I said to this guy, Hey, what if I could get this church over here to partner with you 00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:40.240 guys? 00:45:40.240 --> 00:45:43.680 And it's really not even a financial investment for this big church. 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:50.260 It's them saying, we're willing to give five hours a week of three of our staff people to 00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:54.860 actually help you do your digital stuff so you can do other stuff. 00:45:55.240 --> 00:46:00.760 And so now this big church can say, we're helping in this pandemic plant this church in Columbus, 00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:01.280 Ohio. 00:46:01.520 --> 00:46:05.540 And that revs up that church because they can show about this Columbus church. 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:09.180 And then Jeff, I started thinking, what if we could do that with all of our new church 00:46:09.180 --> 00:46:10.480 plants in the digital realm? 00:46:10.780 --> 00:46:16.380 What if we could attach them to a mega church just to get, you know, or to, I don't care 00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:20.980 if it's mega, if it's church of 600, whoever we, there are so many digital resource people 00:46:20.980 --> 00:46:24.160 out there in our churches that these church planners don't have yet. 00:46:24.220 --> 00:46:26.300 And what if we could partner them somehow? 00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:29.420 I just think it's a really cool opportunity, Jeff. 00:46:29.680 --> 00:46:33.160 Yeah, what you're doing is you're thinking outside the box, right? 00:46:33.160 --> 00:46:40.160 And instead of looking at obstacles and hindrances and woe is me, I can't do this. 00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:41.600 Why did God curse me in this? 00:46:41.700 --> 00:46:42.700 No, it's an opportunity. 00:46:43.200 --> 00:46:49.140 This is an opportunity to think different, to even redefine what ministry looks like and 00:46:49.140 --> 00:46:51.980 how we can reach people in the middle of this COVID season. 00:46:52.100 --> 00:46:58.560 I love this idea of churches helping churches and helping plant churches and really starting 00:46:58.560 --> 00:47:04.760 to grow together, not for brand, not for namesake, but for the kingdom. 00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:05.940 That's so good. 00:47:06.120 --> 00:47:09.240 Okay, so here's another thing about leading during this time, Jeff. 00:47:10.700 --> 00:47:15.060 And I want people to hear this correctly because, you know, I am passionate about the church. 00:47:15.620 --> 00:47:21.700 But during this time, I think as leaders of churches, we need to be learning from business leaders. 00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:24.480 And it's not even necessarily about the business. 00:47:24.600 --> 00:47:26.000 I'm not talking about the financial side. 00:47:26.640 --> 00:47:34.220 I'm talking about businesses that have had online presence way ahead of the local church, right? 00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:42.320 I mean, you look at Amazon and Google, I mean, and you name it, look at how is the local business? 00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:47.320 How are they, you know, how are they making, if the screen door that people are looking at 00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:52.800 on their screen isn't appealing, I'm not going to that business. 00:47:53.260 --> 00:47:57.120 I mean, I check out every restaurant, just about every new restaurant that I would go to, 00:47:57.220 --> 00:48:00.280 I would look at their webpage before I would go to it. 00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:03.620 And if it's not appealing, I'm not going. 00:48:04.220 --> 00:48:08.540 And so what can we learn from those local businesses and restaurants about how we design 00:48:08.540 --> 00:48:12.120 our front door on the screen on our digital presence, right? 00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:17.240 And so I guess I would just say, really broaden whom you're going to learn from. 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:22.500 And don't think that you just have to be learning from other local churches and what they're doing. 00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:26.780 Look outside that scope in other realms because God's at work there as well. 00:48:27.100 --> 00:48:28.160 So good right there. 00:48:28.680 --> 00:48:31.280 Yeah, there's a lot in the business realm. 00:48:31.680 --> 00:48:34.080 And they, you know, to use that, who is it? 00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:36.980 I'm even blanking on the guy's name who said it. 00:48:37.100 --> 00:48:37.880 Oh, my man. 00:48:38.040 --> 00:48:44.640 Anyway, someone has said, you know, the business world looks at obstacles as opportunities. 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:55.500 And for them to take and tackle the church looks at obstacles as a threat and doesn't want to and wants to attack it or run from it. 00:48:55.500 --> 00:49:15.980 And so for us to learn in this business season, in this COVID season of how to take that a business approach, to experiment, to beta, to try things out, to be willing to partner for the kingdom's sake, not just for an individual's sake or for your own church's brand is so good. 00:49:16.540 --> 00:49:18.080 Hey, this has been an awesome conversation. 00:49:18.080 --> 00:49:25.960 Like, I could just sit here and literally just continue having this because I'm learning, I'm soaking. 00:49:26.160 --> 00:49:41.820 I love your approach to tackling this season, of being aggressive in it and not to back off, not to shy, to even pivot, even in the digital realm in this season. 00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:49.200 You know, there were plans we had pre-COVID and we were very quickly pivoting and adjusting in early March to adjust. 00:49:49.300 --> 00:50:03.300 And now to see four or five months later as this thing stretched out, the influence that we've been able to have, the churches that we've been able to impact, both within Stadia's network and outside, has been phenomenal. 00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:04.500 So, man, thank you. 00:50:04.700 --> 00:50:05.300 You know, it's funny. 00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:06.920 I feel like I need to say this. 00:50:07.220 --> 00:50:09.180 Hey, thanks for the invite to be part of the team. 00:50:09.180 --> 00:50:16.620 Like, I just, the first time you and I talked, I remember this conversation and it basically went like this. 00:50:16.660 --> 00:50:23.860 It was, Jeff, I think we need you here at Stadia and I think you need us as well. 00:50:24.020 --> 00:50:26.220 So, yeah, let's keep talking. 00:50:26.220 --> 00:50:41.600 And it's been phenomenal for me at a personal level to connect with the organization, to work as part of a team, to learn in this process, but to also be able to influence so many others in it. 00:50:41.700 --> 00:50:42.960 So, sir, thank you for the invite. 00:50:43.100 --> 00:50:48.740 Thank you for the way that you lead here at Stadia. 00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:50.780 It's a phenomenal thing to be a part of. 00:50:50.780 --> 00:50:53.040 Hey, Jeff, happy birthday, my friend. 00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:56.920 And let's do this for lots, lots more years together. 00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:00.060 And we won't stop until every child has a church. 00:51:00.220 --> 00:51:01.160 That's going to be awesome. 00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:06.700 Hey, so for Greg, this is Jeff with The Church Digital. 00:51:07.100 --> 00:51:08.660 Thanks for jumping on the podcast. 00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:10.080 We'll see you next time here at the show. 00:51:10.180 --> 00:51:10.700 Y'all have a good day.