WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.860 Episode 95 of the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planting. 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:14.040 Jeff here. 95. Even before I go any further, 95 episodes. Man, it's been a long run, a fun run. 00:00:14.200 --> 00:00:18.980 Thank you, audience out there for listening, for joining me on this journey while we're trying to 00:00:18.980 --> 00:00:24.660 figure out how to do church online, how to do digital church, how to do fidgetal church more 00:00:24.660 --> 00:00:29.980 effectively. It has been such a fun run. Man, I even feel guilty saying that in the midst of 00:00:29.980 --> 00:00:34.760 this COVID season, am I allowed to have fun doing podcasts, trying to help churches figure out how 00:00:34.760 --> 00:00:41.220 to see this as an opportunity to get better, to improve, to thrive, grow, and even multiply? 00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:46.580 Yeah, I think I can have fun doing that. So it's been a fun run. Hey, Episode 95 here. We're going 00:00:46.580 --> 00:00:52.860 to shift a little bit, slightly, just a little bit, because part of this whole church online, 00:00:53.180 --> 00:00:58.200 this whole fidgetal church thing really comes down to, yes, we need to focus on creating community. 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:04.560 Yes, we need to change some of the culture of how that works in context of church, but we also need 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:11.680 to look at it not as the tool, the resource to create community, but we also need to look at it 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:17.880 as the tool and the resource to communicate. And so I wanted to maybe pause from the whole church 00:01:17.880 --> 00:01:22.260 online, the online community, the disciple making, all of those conversations, digital only, 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:28.480 and shift gears a little bit and have a conversation centered around how we as a church, 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:34.280 what lessons do we need to learn through this COVID season towards communication, towards digital 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:39.960 communication? How can we do things more effectively, more efficiently? If we're starting, where do we 00:01:39.960 --> 00:01:45.940 start? How do we start? If we're growing, what's those next steps that we should be taking in and amongst 00:01:45.940 --> 00:01:52.140 this COVID season? And so what I did was I called the one guy I know who's incredible at church 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:56.820 communications, Ben Stapley, weekend experience director over at Christ Fellowship Miami, no stranger 00:01:56.820 --> 00:02:02.040 here to the podcast, and said, hey, Ben, I want to do this show. Who should I bring in? Who should I 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:09.280 talk to? You tell me what to do here. And Ben, as typically does, gives excellent advice and connected 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:14.900 to me with two excellent communication directors. So we're bringing in Lauren Berkerich from Liquid 00:02:14.900 --> 00:02:21.800 Church, Ben's former stomping grounds up in the New Jersey, New York area, as well as Haley 00:02:21.800 --> 00:02:27.620 Vituris, who's actually a former Saddleback, but is currently at a church called Bayside out in 00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:33.580 California. Both are phenomenal churches. Of course, Ben also jumped on the conversation 00:02:33.580 --> 00:02:40.600 from Christ Fellowship Miami. So we've got three mega giga level church conversations here, three people 00:02:40.600 --> 00:02:45.440 with experience with larger churches. But we're not just focusing on the big church. What I love about 00:02:45.440 --> 00:02:50.180 the conversation is we're able to drill down to the nitty gritty for that church planner, maybe even some 00:02:50.180 --> 00:02:55.580 of those guys who are just starting out trying to figure out what those next steps are. So when it comes 00:02:55.580 --> 00:03:03.000 to digital communications, this is a great conversation and a great place to start. So we're bringing in 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:08.060 Ben Stapley, we're bringing in Laura Berkerich, we're bringing in Haley, the tourists from respective 00:03:08.060 --> 00:03:12.700 churches across the country, and myself, Jeff, with the Church of Digital and Stadia Church Planning 00:03:12.700 --> 00:03:18.320 in a conversation that I am calling Launching and Elevating Church Communication Teams. 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:24.080 Okay, everybody, here you go. Lauren, Haley, why don't you just take a minute, 60 seconds, 00:03:24.260 --> 00:03:28.940 introduce yourself, what's your ministry story, what do you do at the respective churches, 00:03:28.940 --> 00:03:32.080 just to give us some background, and then we'll get into the conversation 00:03:32.420 --> 00:03:34.760 here in a little bit. Lauren, would you mind going first? 00:03:35.100 --> 00:03:40.980 Sure. So I'm the communications director at Liquid Church. I've been there about five years, 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:48.660 which means essentially, if anything's written, printed, video, graphics, social media, 00:03:48.660 --> 00:03:55.680 we're kind of overseeing that. So strategy to execution. Previously, though, I was not in ministry, 00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:01.840 I was in the marketplace. I got my start as a journalist, as a local television news reporter. So Ben and I have 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:08.220 that in common, too. That's kind of how we got our start. And then I transitioned to the agency public 00:04:08.220 --> 00:04:14.500 relations world when I wanted some normalcy in my life. And so I worked there with a variety of clients. 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:20.520 Liquid was my church where I attended. And, you know, it's just one of those God things. You're having 00:04:20.520 --> 00:04:25.940 dinner with your pastor one night, and suddenly you're applying for a job the next day, and you're 00:04:25.940 --> 00:04:32.080 thinking, what is happening here? And so now I'm in the ministry world. And I got two little boys at 00:04:32.320 --> 00:04:34.780 home who are just the loves of my life. 00:04:35.400 --> 00:04:40.840 That's awesome. I didn't realize that the TV connection, Ben, was it the same station, 00:04:40.940 --> 00:04:43.120 or was it just within the same industry? No? Okay. 00:04:43.380 --> 00:04:43.540 No. 00:04:44.280 --> 00:04:49.700 And Ben, you were more like, you were more Canada when you were TV, right? You weren't TV in Jersey, 00:04:49.700 --> 00:04:50.040 were you? 00:04:50.200 --> 00:04:52.040 Chicago and NBC, and then up in Toronto. 00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:55.420 Toronto. Okay. Yeah. Haley, tell us a little bit about your story. 00:04:55.780 --> 00:05:02.600 Yeah. So I've been at Bayside Church for two, almost two and a half years now. And I started 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:08.620 out in church ministry at Saddleback Church for nine and a half years. And I was the first 00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:15.860 social media manager there at Saddleback and just grew those channels and really paved the 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:21.460 way in, I would say, church social media. I was one of the early pioneers. Most of my peers 00:05:21.460 --> 00:05:25.460 and colleagues don't work at churches anymore. They work for themselves and hustle the churches, 00:05:25.460 --> 00:05:29.960 which is fine, but you're not, it's a lot harder to do ministry when you're in the trenches. 00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:34.340 So it's nice to be your own boss and to tell churches what to do, but it's a lot harder when 00:05:34.340 --> 00:05:38.740 you have pastors telling you what to do, even though you know the space a little bit better than 00:05:38.740 --> 00:05:45.260 they do. But I just felt a call to ministry and I interned for a new station in San Diego, 00:05:45.440 --> 00:05:51.720 Fox 6 San Diego, which that affiliate isn't there anymore, but I could not do the reporter thing. 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:58.340 I don't have the reporter voice. I am a little ADD. So talking on my feet was not a gift that I had, 00:05:58.380 --> 00:06:03.080 but I thought I was going to go that route to be a producer for the news. And God just pulled me into 00:06:03.080 --> 00:06:09.140 ministry, which is so funny because my two sisters went to private Christian schools for college and I 00:06:09.140 --> 00:06:13.600 went to San Diego State and was in a sorority. So not the kid you would think would work at a church, 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:15.120 but here we are. 00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:20.640 That's awesome. I was a radio DJ. That's the closest I came to broadcast. 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:26.200 So maybe, you know, you may not have the voice for it, but, or, you know, for that, I definitely 00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:32.060 don't have the base for it. So that's why they kind of stuck me behind the radio. So awesome. Modern 00:06:32.060 --> 00:06:36.260 rock in the nineties. It was good, good time. Good times. Good times. The thing that I really wanted to 00:06:36.260 --> 00:06:42.840 get in here a little bit is, is this challenge of how do we build our communication teams in this COVID 00:06:42.840 --> 00:06:49.900 season without having the building, there's having been a lot of stock on social media, on email 00:06:49.900 --> 00:06:56.240 communications as churches don't have the physical ability. And now they're starting to reach out and 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:02.560 really utilize some of these digital tools. And so like, I would love to even just from, from both of 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:08.540 you guys, Lauren, Haley, Ben as, as well from, from the outside, like just from the get go, what 00:07:08.540 --> 00:07:16.540 lessons are you learning? What observations, where have you seen like communication change as a result 00:07:16.540 --> 00:07:21.220 of COVID? Maybe some things that you were doing pre-COVID weren't working. What are you now seeing 00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:27.440 work and change for you in mid COVID, post COVID, wherever we are now, uh, call it, you know, 00:07:27.700 --> 00:07:30.220 October, September, 2020. What are you learning? 00:07:30.220 --> 00:07:36.240 Yeah. The, for me, I think there's a couple of quick things, the importance of a lower third to 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:41.300 communicate fluid information. We did it twice where we said, we are reopening on this date. 00:07:41.520 --> 00:07:46.120 And then we had to change the whole video and re-record. So we just, we, we learned to say, 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:51.980 we're reopening at the time below because we stopped, um, realized that we realized that 00:07:51.980 --> 00:07:57.680 what we thought was concrete was actually wet cement. So that was one of the lessons learned for us, 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:03.760 um, humorously, uh, two kind of big lessons we learned was one was that the communications director, 00:08:03.760 --> 00:08:09.540 manager, whatever you call that staff or volunteer, that that is really one of the most influential. 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.920 And I actually say the second most influential position in the church. So you got lead pastor. 00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:18.460 And I think that's almost the second most influential position in the church. Um, in the past, 00:08:18.460 --> 00:08:23.520 I think people would say pre COVID, Hey, get an intern, uh, get a college student, get somebody, 00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:29.840 you know, get someone's nephew to run communications at the church. And we've realized that we can't get 00:08:29.840 --> 00:08:35.680 away with that. Um, information's changing so fast. Um, it's for some of us, it's a matter of life and 00:08:35.680 --> 00:08:42.340 death. And because of that, we cannot entrust such important information to somebody so far down the 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:47.180 ladder of leadership in the organization. So it's a much higher position. And then the last thing that 00:08:47.180 --> 00:08:52.080 I learned during the season is we need to do a better job of empowering volunteers during the week. 00:08:52.300 --> 00:08:58.240 So we do a great job as churches to do that on the weekend. Um, not so good during the week. And so 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:02.660 we are, we're backfilling some of that for communications. How do we empower volunteers to 00:09:02.660 --> 00:09:06.720 go and take photos of community engagement that's happening during the week? How do they write copy 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:11.380 during the week? Uh, how do we figure out to give them work that they could do in the evenings 00:09:11.380 --> 00:09:15.380 when they're off, but still meet our deadlines? Those are the three big things that we figured 00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:20.060 out. I love that idea of the lower third and Oh, I'm going to have to rerecord that. And 00:09:20.060 --> 00:09:24.740 Lauren Haley, have either of you been bit by something like that in the season? Like the, 00:09:24.740 --> 00:09:30.200 the changing content literally day to day and having to redo some of that? Um, this morning, 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:36.400 actually. So at our first, completely relevant. Yes, completely relevant. Um, we had our first 00:09:36.400 --> 00:09:44.060 week of, uh, live outdoor worship services this past weekend, which went wonderfully. We had some noise 00:09:44.060 --> 00:09:48.740 complaints, however, from the neighbors because they didn't like our tech rehearsals early in the 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:54.620 morning, valid point. So we decided to push back our service times, but of course, everything we'd 00:09:54.620 --> 00:10:02.040 produced, uh, videos, websites, social media, et cetera, had the old service times and these are 00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:07.260 moving forward. So this morning I spent a lot of time, um, rejiggering that content, asking our video 00:10:07.260 --> 00:10:12.920 team, can you cut out that line where, um, our talent says services are at nine and 11 and can we 00:10:12.920 --> 00:10:17.260 change that up? So, yeah, so we just went through that, which, uh, you know, it was one of those 00:10:17.260 --> 00:10:21.840 moments. Yeah. A lower third would have been nice. Is that the technical term rejiggering? Is that, 00:10:21.900 --> 00:10:27.040 is that? Yes, that is. That is. Yes. On my resume, it says professional rejiggerer. 00:10:27.380 --> 00:10:35.300 Well done. Haley, maybe, maybe for you, like what, what are you learning, uh, in this, in this season? 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:39.940 Well, um, a really great trait that I learned from Saddleback Church was to be fast, fluid, 00:10:39.940 --> 00:10:45.420 and flexible. And this is absolutely the season for that. Working in social media, you can't work 00:10:45.420 --> 00:10:50.140 in social media without being fast, fluid, and flexible because it's changing every day. I think 00:10:50.140 --> 00:10:55.320 there's new layouts, even on Facebook for managers rolling out. So like relearning the new layout that you 00:10:55.320 --> 00:11:00.080 have to operate every single day can get really annoying, but nine and a half years of it, I don't 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:06.700 even know what's the normal layout anymore. It's just always new. Um, so we've had the fires here and 00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:11.700 so we've been able to do outdoor services, socially distanced, but with fires, you can't really be 00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:17.940 outdoors when the smoking is not just at a hazardous level, the smoke is at a toxic level. So making those 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:23.700 calls to like last minute, move people indoors for safety purposes and just hoping that no one's in 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:27.560 there going and telling the governor that cause we're in Sacramento. So we're right where governor 00:11:27.560 --> 00:11:33.260 Gavin Newsom is. So there's a lot at stake there, but there's still like neighboring churches that are 00:11:33.260 --> 00:11:38.520 like, we don't care. We're meeting anyway without any of your rules. And we are much larger church. 00:11:38.640 --> 00:11:44.640 So we're trying to have a both and like, yes, you can impinge on our, um, our first amendment rights, 00:11:44.640 --> 00:11:52.640 but also like we can't be outside because the air is literally toxic for you. So last minute 00:11:52.640 --> 00:11:56.960 communication, like we don't, we learn not to put lower thirds down on there for the weekend messages, 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:01.880 even though we filmed those like midweek. And we just, you really utilize our communication 00:12:01.880 --> 00:12:07.520 platforms to get the word out, um, through text, through email, through social, um, you name it, 00:12:07.520 --> 00:12:13.560 we try to hit it up. Um, so people know when they can view onsite and online. And I think something 00:12:13.560 --> 00:12:18.560 else that is really notable saying is that a lot of small, smaller churches, when they knew they 00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:23.380 could go back to onsite, completely abandoned their online, but there's a lot of people still not 00:12:23.380 --> 00:12:29.640 comfortable going in person. So you don't want to move all of your resources to serve maybe a third 00:12:29.640 --> 00:12:36.280 of your church or less. We've seen it be like one fifth in person, um, when still four fifths are 00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:41.280 watching online. So keep those people hosting those Facebook lives, keep your hosts on your 00:12:41.280 --> 00:12:47.420 online platforms, keep pushing people to watch online. Because again, like I've always been 00:12:47.420 --> 00:12:52.580 pushing the online platform, um, with my friend Jay Cranda at Saddleback, because you can reach so 00:12:52.580 --> 00:12:57.320 much farther than the four walls of your church online. Really it's limitless. You can reach all 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:02.620 around the world. So I'd like to see more churches, um, not abandoning their online technique as they 00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:05.880 start to transition back to onsite. I think there can be room for a both end 00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:11.300 strategy. Yeah, there, there's definitely room for that continuing on learning lessons in this COVID 00:13:11.300 --> 00:13:16.140 season that are going to help the churches move forward. And, uh, you just, even with, with the 00:13:16.140 --> 00:13:24.140 fires, you just brought up how difficult 2020 is, right? Uh, you, so like COVID's a thing, um, racial 00:13:24.140 --> 00:13:30.880 reconciliation is a thing. Um, you know, we've, we've seen just here in Miami, uh, trop, we were hit by a 00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:35.160 tropical depression just came out of nowhere over the weekend. I wasn't horrible, but a lot, a lot of 00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:42.020 rain as a result of that. So many hurricanes here within, in the Gulf, uh, affecting different areas 00:13:42.020 --> 00:13:47.880 and cities. Like this, this year is really is becoming a nightmare where it would seem like 00:13:47.880 --> 00:13:55.260 communication has to be so crucial in how it's handled in order for any organization, of course, 00:13:55.260 --> 00:14:00.780 churches to be effective in that season. Now the, and there's, there's lessons that need to be learned. 00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:05.820 There are things that, Hey, we need to do things differently here with, with the podcast. I don't 00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:10.960 know that the governor of California is listening. So I think the, the saddleback tip or the, yeah, 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:16.700 that, that tip with Bay Hope, excuse me, Bayside church is safe. I don't think the governor will find 00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:22.100 out. Don't share this podcast with the governor, please. Um, but what lessons, here's what I'd love to 00:14:22.100 --> 00:14:28.980 know. What lessons are we learning? Um, in the season, maybe what pain points, uh, of a church 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:35.860 who's not learning somebody who's struggling with, Hey, I don't, I, I, we've got it. Okay. I just want 00:14:35.860 --> 00:14:40.900 to get back to the building. I don't need to improve communication. I, as a pastor are doing it fine 00:14:40.900 --> 00:14:45.440 or the team that we've got. Yeah. They seemed overworked. They seem stressed all the time, 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:49.920 but every communication director is stressed all the time. I've never met one that isn't stressed. 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:56.180 So I, the question would be this, what, what are the pain points that an organization would feel 00:14:56.180 --> 00:15:02.220 that is not effectively utilizing communication? What are the warning signs? What are the red flags? 00:15:02.740 --> 00:15:07.300 What are the things that it's like, Hey, there's time maybe to make a change. There's time to grow 00:15:07.300 --> 00:15:11.040 the department a little bit. What, what would you guys say were some of the red flags that, 00:15:11.040 --> 00:15:16.860 that churches out there should be looking at? Um, I'll jump in. I'd say one would be, um, 00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:23.160 I think many churches realized they don't have a crisis communications plan and they realized that 00:15:23.160 --> 00:15:28.500 right back in March when we, everybody was scrambling, but they might now be resting on their 00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:33.980 laurels and thinking, okay, we finally figured this out and they still don't have a crisis communications 00:15:33.980 --> 00:15:40.480 plan. Um, so if that didn't spur them to action back in March, um, they really need to take some time to 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:46.380 step back and evaluate what is their crisis management plan, who is on their crisis team 00:15:46.380 --> 00:15:52.160 and map that out for all different types of scenarios. So if they haven't done that yet, 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:57.920 that should be on their to-do list. I think that's one learning. I think, um, another big learning is 00:15:57.920 --> 00:16:02.460 that a lot of churches might've realized they don't have a communication strategy. What they do is they 00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:06.780 have a collection of tactics that they use. So if I had asked somebody, Hey, what's your 00:16:06.780 --> 00:16:12.540 communication strategy? I wouldn't be surprised for them to say to me, Oh, we advertise a lot on social 00:16:12.540 --> 00:16:17.500 media and that's our strategy. And I would say, no, no, no, that's a marketing tactic that you're using 00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:22.720 to execute whatever your strategy should be. And so I think a lot of people just need to take the time. 00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:27.480 It can be hard when we're rushing, right? We're so, um, uh, pressed against deadlines, 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:33.660 but to step back and evaluate your status quo and take that time to figure out what is our strategy. 00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:39.160 That way, every decision we're making can be filtered towards, does that get us a step closer 00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:46.040 to achieving our goals? You know, does that help us in our strategy? And then I would just say that 00:16:46.040 --> 00:16:52.500 some people, um, I think even my church included, uh, a liquid church, we love to execute with excellence. 00:16:52.760 --> 00:16:58.260 So we think excellence honors God and it engages people. And so we would try to perfect things. 00:16:58.580 --> 00:17:02.640 No, perfect is the wrong word. We're not going after perfection excellence, but we would try to 00:17:02.640 --> 00:17:07.920 get things really, really great and then release them. Right. But this is a totally new normal. 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:14.920 And we have a new outlook. We're more open to experimentation than ever before. Um, we got 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:19.800 to throw some spaghetti at the wall. We got to see what works. We got to be willing to pull the plug 00:17:19.800 --> 00:17:24.860 on things. We got to be willing to say what worked before doesn't work now. We got to be okay. We're 00:17:24.860 --> 00:17:29.460 falling flat and failing and kind of just laughing at ourselves and saying that was a good try. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.860 Um, but I wonder if some other churches out there are still struggling with that. Um, and is it okay 00:17:34.860 --> 00:17:39.100 to experiment? Do they have the permission to try new things? Do they have the permission to pull the 00:17:39.100 --> 00:17:43.640 plug on some things? And so I wouldn't want that to hold people back because I think it's been really 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:50.020 beneficial. And one of the things I would love for our organization to continue to do, um, post COVID 00:17:50.020 --> 00:17:52.940 that we are a church that experiments and tries new things. 00:17:53.300 --> 00:17:58.260 Yeah. I love that idea of experimenting. We talk so much here and even trying to fine tune church 00:17:58.260 --> 00:18:03.160 online. There's no rule books on this. There's honestly, the majority of the strategies weren't, 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.480 weren't even developed to the point that they are now. So in this COVID season, uh, there's been just 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:12.660 so much experimenting within the church and continuing that idea on, you know, like, uh, 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:18.820 we often tell the story of, um, like Apple iPhone releases their iPhone once a year, and that's 00:18:18.820 --> 00:18:26.320 got to be perfect. If there's an issue with the hardware iPhone, it's a 80 iPhone, 80 million iPhones 00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:32.480 will be recalled in a given year because that's how many they've sold very quickly. So you can't, 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:39.440 you have to have that perfection, but software like Google, uh, Google, Gmail, like Gmail was in beta for 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:44.980 five and a half years, had tens of millions of users. And they were just experimenting and tinkering 00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:51.140 with all these users in the system. Facebook itself launches a new, uh, mobile app every two weeks. 00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:56.740 They just launch updates towards it. And so there's always this, this idea of tinkering and experimenting 00:18:56.740 --> 00:19:01.720 within the church, us learning from that to say, Hey, we don't have to have the, 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:07.560 the final picture in place. Uh, but we have to be able to throw spaghetti on the wall. I'm going to 00:19:07.560 --> 00:19:11.860 borrow that one. That's awesome. Throw, throw the spaghetti, see, see if it sticks, uh, and then run 00:19:11.860 --> 00:19:17.460 with it. My, my daughter does that. She cooks and she throws spaghetti at the, at the, uh, free 00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:22.640 refrigerator. That's her thing. So awesome. Hey, uh, Haley, tell me what, what are some red flags 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:28.940 on your side? What, what should churches look for that, that maybe don't have a good communication 00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:30.760 plan? What are some things they're going to struggle with? 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:34.900 Well, I think, um, I agree with everything that Lauren just mentioned, crisis strategy, 00:19:35.040 --> 00:19:40.300 crisis communication. That's been a big one. And as someone that's focused on, um, I'm a director 00:19:40.300 --> 00:19:46.800 of digital engagement. It's funny because overseeing digital somehow, like it's also accompanied the 00:19:46.800 --> 00:19:51.540 PR role because you can get a message out the fastest on social. And so some, for some reason, 00:19:51.620 --> 00:19:57.020 the social media person has assumed that PR position for the church. And so I can really only 00:19:57.020 --> 00:20:02.260 just speak on behalf of like what I know with my experience at Bayside, but in this season, 00:20:02.260 --> 00:20:08.400 it's just felt like, you know, with the, the BNLM movement and all of that going on at the same time 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:15.000 as COVID is that we learned, we thought we were taking action as a church, but we learned we weren't 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:23.200 being very clear on what we stood for. So just an example for us, we did a march, a peace march in the 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:29.640 city of Sacramento, the state Capitol, um, with Sacramento police department. It was together in 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:34.780 unity with Sac PD. And we had some great photographers from our church come and take pictures. 00:20:35.020 --> 00:20:40.260 I got them. We posted them onto social, tried to be as selective as I could, but you can't filter out 00:20:40.260 --> 00:20:44.980 people from a crowd. So there are people with BLM signs in the background and all people saw, 00:20:45.100 --> 00:20:50.500 they did not see us linking arms with Sac PD. All they saw was us marching with people with BLM signs. 00:20:51.060 --> 00:20:56.140 So it became this very large political thing. And Bayside, we pride ourselves on being culturally 00:20:56.140 --> 00:21:01.360 diverse and having a very diverse pastoral staff. We have at least one to two teaching pastors at each 00:21:01.360 --> 00:21:07.360 of our eight locations. So, um, we try to add a lot of diversity there as well. And it just felt like 00:21:07.360 --> 00:21:13.420 all that work we had been doing was kind of getting like destroyed just because people in the background 00:21:13.420 --> 00:21:20.600 were holding BLM signs. And we had like police, like wanting to leave the church and security guards 00:21:20.600 --> 00:21:25.960 who had been longtime volunteers wanting to leave. And we just learned like, we have to be very clear. 00:21:26.360 --> 00:21:34.540 Yes, Black lives do matter, but we do not support the organization, um, and their purposes behind it. 00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:40.420 We do support our brothers and sisters in Christ who are Black and we feel for them at this time 00:21:40.420 --> 00:21:45.000 while they're hurting, but we do not support that organization. So had we been very clear up front 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:51.060 with those statements, we probably could have solved a lot of pain points earlier on that we faced as a 00:21:51.060 --> 00:21:58.040 church. So just very vulnerably sharing, be very, very clear about doing any of those things up front 00:21:58.040 --> 00:22:03.020 and on your channels, have a statement ready. If you need one, have your pastor, just hop on a camera 00:22:03.020 --> 00:22:07.840 and make a statement, um, and post that to your digital channels because, um, we had to learn the 00:22:07.840 --> 00:22:13.380 hard way in this instance and you better believe we won't be doing that mistake again. So yeah, 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:18.680 everything Lauren said. And then also just be very clear, even if you do feel like you're doing good 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.720 things during the season with the community on what you do stand for as a church. 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:27.680 You know, and Ben, I know you and I, I feel like we've had this conversation maybe on, on earlier 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:34.080 podcasts, but it comes to either pre-recording and being ready for situations like that, or just 00:22:34.080 --> 00:22:40.420 responding quickly in the moment. Like, I'm just curious how, what, how do you roll? Like what, 00:22:40.520 --> 00:22:46.700 what's the, the, the better plan or process? Be ready to jump on something or, or have it like 00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:51.280 pre-recorded and ready to go? How do you anticipate or deal with maybe some of those issues? 00:22:51.520 --> 00:22:56.320 In relationship to our, our regular weekend experience, we like to get that in a can. So 00:22:56.320 --> 00:23:03.140 we pre-record that. Um, but what we've done when that crisis does, um, happen after our recording, 00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:08.940 we figure out a way to inject that into the service experience or into just inject it into social. So 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:13.700 again, we're trying to, uh, we're trying to be, um, excellent as Lauren is talking about, but then 00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:18.580 also flexible as Haley is talking about. So how do we hold both those values in tension? That's, 00:23:18.580 --> 00:23:22.620 that's where we try to do it by pre-recording, then also being nimble enough to interject something, 00:23:22.620 --> 00:23:23.780 um, during the season. 00:23:23.780 --> 00:23:29.280 So, um, let me ask this, like, okay, let's pretend here. I'm an established church. Um, 00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:37.880 I've, I've been around a long time. I've, one campus church. Um, what, what's a new role in the 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:43.680 church, uh, either staff or volunteer that's kind of come out of this COVID season? What, what are some 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:50.520 things that we were doing, um, now mid COVID, post COVID that maybe we weren't doing pre COVID. So 00:23:50.520 --> 00:23:56.240 like, what is something new that you would recommend? Oh, churches, you need to focus on 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:56.780 this. 00:23:57.060 --> 00:24:00.920 I'll take that. And I'll, before I take that all, if I can jump into the other one as well, 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:05.380 like what are some of the symptoms when you don't have, like Lauren was saying, a strong social media 00:24:05.380 --> 00:24:11.420 strategy. The two ones I've seen repeatedly is churches that add, add, add, add, and never 00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:17.180 subtract, right? They got the paper bulletin. Now they got the website and then they got the apps and 00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:22.360 they got the, they, they, they just keep on adding platforms. And at some point as a nonprofit, 00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:27.500 you have to cut something. So that's one of the things I've, I've seen. And for churches who are 00:24:27.500 --> 00:24:34.200 listening, who are looking for a, a life preserver is cut, cut something. If you're adding a, another 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:38.780 communication platform, and let's be honest, the proliferation of them is not going to stop. 00:24:38.780 --> 00:24:43.360 They're going to continue. Then you need to cut something or you're going to, you're going to wear 00:24:43.360 --> 00:24:48.420 everybody out. Um, that's the first thing. And then the second symptom I've seen is if you don't 00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:53.760 have a clear strategy, uh, then everybody fights for resources and that the squeaky wheel gets the 00:24:53.760 --> 00:24:59.420 grease. The, the old analogy I've used was my parents used to buy me and my, my two other brothers 00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:04.280 every Wednesday when we were kids, a large pizza and there are medium sized pizza, sorry. And there'd 00:25:04.280 --> 00:25:10.360 be six slices. And my parents never said, you got to, you got to, you got to. So what we do, 00:25:10.360 --> 00:25:16.100 we do is try to eat as quickly as we could in hopes of getting that third piece because my parents never 00:25:16.100 --> 00:25:21.660 allocated those resources. And the same thing is we're adults, but let's be honest, we still fight 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:26.500 for resources with each other. And so if you're not dictating as your leadership of your church, 00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:31.520 it's not indicating the priorities of the church, then all the ministries and all the departments 00:25:31.520 --> 00:25:36.340 are going to fight over the airtime from communications. And so I see that again and again, 00:25:36.340 --> 00:25:40.340 I hear from people in ministry saying, I'm not getting airtime. It's a, it's a wrestling match. 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:45.260 That's because communication priority has not been established at the top. So those are the two 00:25:45.260 --> 00:25:50.140 symptoms I've seen. Um, and then to answer your next question in relationship to how, how we've pivot 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:56.020 with staffing. I don't know if I've seen, uh, roles, but I've seen increased responsibilities 00:25:56.020 --> 00:26:03.400 with the crisis management. Um, social media, um, are the biggest things. And then also positioning I've 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:09.200 seen as a big change for churches where in the past, again, this is influence the past. This person in 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:14.540 this communications director role is they would get information second or third hand. They would be 00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:19.420 a telephone game and they would, it oftentimes get mixed up as it got to them. Now I'm seeing that 00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:24.360 person being brought in with the executive team, the leadership team during important conversations 00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:29.680 to hear firsthand what is happening. And they're the first person outside of that executive team and 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:34.300 leadership team to get that information to pass it on. I think that's the biggest change I've seen 00:26:34.300 --> 00:26:40.400 with staffing, just having that person in those conversations and elevating them to make sure 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:44.640 they get it firsthand. Awesome. Yeah. It's, it was, I think you mentioned earlier, we were having a 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:49.900 conversation about maybe that communications director is like number two in importance, or at least in the 00:26:49.900 --> 00:26:56.020 ability to influence people next to that lead pastor, getting them that, that kind of fresh from the 00:26:56.020 --> 00:27:01.640 tree approach instead of the bad telephone game. Yeah. I mean, that, that, that's a big win. I've, I've seen 00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:07.920 that with, with organizations that I've worked with, with maybe from you guys, Lauren, uh, Haley, and what, 00:27:08.060 --> 00:27:13.320 what, what other, uh, what other things maybe should an established church, what, what are, how have things 00:27:13.320 --> 00:27:18.600 changed in COVID season that, that churches should be taken advantage of that maybe, maybe they haven't 00:27:18.600 --> 00:27:25.280 realized yet? Um, so just thinking about like the resources and, and, um, staffing. So I'd agree a hundred 00:27:25.280 --> 00:27:31.820 percent with Ben that up to this point, a lot of churches have just been, um, trying to have their staff 00:27:31.820 --> 00:27:38.440 cover all the bases, right? Everybody's working more, working longer, taking on new responsibilities. But, um, at 00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:44.440 Liquid and other organizations that we've spoken to, um, there is the look though at re-evaluating what are those 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:50.380 staff resources and what roles do we have to elevate or create? Um, two of those I would point to is the 00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:57.420 church online pastor. So at our organization and many, I think this was just one hat that a staff member 00:27:57.420 --> 00:28:02.840 wore. It wasn't the primary thing they focused on. It wasn't the secondary thing they focused on. In the margins, 00:28:02.840 --> 00:28:09.920 they recorded some hosting. They tried to pop on social media. They tried to care for their flock in, I don't know, 00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:16.680 10 hours a week if we're lucky. And now I think it's, Hey, we have to elevate that role or create that role 00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:24.120 and have somebody thinking 24 seven about this. Um, I would also say, um, we're looking at, you know, 00:28:24.120 --> 00:28:30.980 possibly, um, adding a position as a digital content director. So somebody under the communications fold, 00:28:30.980 --> 00:28:37.800 but specifically thinking about digital content 24 seven, because we have tried to create a lot of unique 00:28:37.800 --> 00:28:43.700 digital content in this season, but it's a beast. As we all know, social media, digital content, you can 00:28:43.700 --> 00:28:49.840 never feed the beast enough. There's always a desire for more. And so to just add that say to, you know, 00:28:49.840 --> 00:28:56.400 my role, or, um, I I'm lucky enough to be a two man department. I have a communications coordinator who I 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:02.460 couldn't live without. She's amazing. Um, but we're carrying so much and we're carrying all that digital 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:07.960 content, um, kind of creation outside of church online right now, but to have somebody from the 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:13.440 marketplace to maybe join our team and to think about that 24 seven, that would be a huge win. I 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:17.780 think that'd be a win for any organization. Love that. Love, love the idea of the coordinator. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:24.440 When you say digital, like social media, immediate applications tying into that, are, are there other, 00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:31.120 other realms outside of social media that the phrase digital, that label covers? How are you exploring 00:29:31.120 --> 00:29:36.920 the idea of digital at, uh, at liquid? So we've been trying to create a lot of, um, special online 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:43.280 events. So I'll give you some examples for 15 weeks. We did Wednesday live prayer services. There was 00:29:43.280 --> 00:29:49.560 always a, a new theme, a new guests, new people praying, new pastors leading it, where we invited 00:29:49.560 --> 00:29:57.720 people to join us, um, on Facebook live for that every Wednesday. We did, um, daily devotionals for 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:04.480 about 10 weeks, every single weekday at noon, you were hearing from one of our pastors. Um, I just got 00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:10.720 done producing a parent support series. This is through our liquid family ministry. So again, we were live 00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:15.260 every week, every week, a different theme. So it's surviving homeschooling this week, as we're leading 00:30:15.260 --> 00:30:20.560 into homeschooling, right? We had educators on, we had professional homeschoolers, we had, um, 00:30:20.560 --> 00:30:25.880 occupational therapists. We had this robust conversation. How can we help our parents? Another 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:30.760 week it's setting, uh, routines. How can we, so we're thinking about how do we help people? What 00:30:30.760 --> 00:30:35.700 are the felt needs in our community? And how do we create unique digital content that meets their 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:43.600 needs? We're doing, um, you can sign up, um, text us, you know, uh, text liquid parents at 94090 and get 00:30:43.600 --> 00:30:48.960 your daily devotional. We've been doing that for months. Um, so every ministry has something different, 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:55.120 right? Groups is doing unique content for their group leaders. Um, but it's all online. It's all 00:30:55.120 --> 00:31:01.060 digital. It's stuff we've never done before. So we're figuring it all out and it's a lot. It's a big 00:31:01.060 --> 00:31:06.900 lift. I don't want to see it end. I just want to see it continue to grow. Um, and so, but we need 00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:10.960 some extra help and some fresh thinking too. I would love somebody to come on and give us some fresh 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:16.820 thinking. Lauren, can I just jump in and say how much I appreciate the fact that your, your, your text 00:31:16.820 --> 00:31:21.760 word and your number are both easy to remember. I'm not going to out them, but I was at a church 00:31:21.760 --> 00:31:31.100 recently and the church had four words in their name and they text to, and the number they had didn't 00:31:31.100 --> 00:31:35.400 have any repeating numbers. And it was like, I just wanted to walk, who's your communications 00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:40.520 director? You can, we can do better than this. We can do better than this. It'd be even simpler if 00:31:40.520 --> 00:31:45.980 the shortcodes weren't already taken. That's awesome. Hey, Haley, any, any thoughts on here, 00:31:45.980 --> 00:31:52.680 like, um, new roles or new directions, um, big church, small church kind of what, what are you 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:57.720 seeing or learning over there at Bayside? Yeah. It's funny that Lauren mentioned all those things 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:02.040 because we had been doing a lot of them prior to this season, but now they've just taken more of a 00:32:02.040 --> 00:32:07.160 precedence. So if you look on our Bayside church YouTube channel, we have a list of like our original 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:12.680 shows that we have created. Um, one of them being one of the ones that I produce is the flip side. 00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:17.140 And we just filmed our hundredth episode. It's a weekly podcast about diving deeper into the weekend 00:32:17.140 --> 00:32:21.920 teaching. So heavy on the theology for the, our attenders who are like, we didn't go deep enough 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:27.100 in the message. Well, we only have like 30 to 45 minutes to teach. So you want more, go watch the 00:32:27.100 --> 00:32:32.440 flip side on Thursdays. Um, so that's there for them. We have city beats, which is a podcast with one of 00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:39.640 our pastors from our Midtown campus. So a suburban urban cultural, um, diversity show about racial 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:44.660 reconciliation. That's one of our original shows on there. We had, um, a four week series parenting 00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:51.640 in a pandemic. So similar to what Lauren had, um, helping parents with psychologists and teachers 00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:56.640 and digital experts, how to keep your kids, um, safe digitally during the season as well, 00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:01.740 while they're just plugged onto devices. Now they're being told to do it for school and then also after 00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:07.280 school hours. So what's the boundaries and balance for that. And then we've been doing a daily video 00:33:07.280 --> 00:33:13.580 devotion for five years called refuel every single day. That's a playlist on there as well. And then 00:33:13.580 --> 00:33:18.400 FaceTime phone calls, um, with some of our favorites, we did this like two years ago. Um, but that's 00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:24.140 still up there to watch where, um, you always want to be like a fly on the wall when your pastor calls 00:33:24.140 --> 00:33:28.920 Bob Goff and you're like, what on earth did they talk about? Well, this kind of allows you to be a fly 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:34.240 on the wall in that situation. Uh, but the most recent show that we have just launched last week, 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:39.980 actually it's called finding good. So is it even possible to find good in this year of 2020 or in 00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:45.260 this culture that we live in? And so one of our pastors goes on a quest to find good. And the 00:33:45.260 --> 00:33:50.560 first trip he takes actually is down to San Diego and Bob Goff's ranch and has a conversation with 00:33:50.560 --> 00:33:56.420 him. And so that was this week's episode. And, um, we're kind of like modeling ourself almost as like 00:33:56.420 --> 00:34:02.720 a Netflix for our community of like positive, great content that again is meeting a felt need. 00:34:02.840 --> 00:34:08.400 I think that's the key to what all your marketing should be doing. Don't just be posting and promoting 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:12.340 what you're doing and expect people to come tell them how it's going to meet something real that 00:34:12.340 --> 00:34:17.000 they're going through. Tell them how you can help people in debt, get out of debt and help their 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:22.820 finances. Tell people who are facing divorce, how you can help potentially get them out of that 00:34:22.820 --> 00:34:27.140 through a marriage class, focusing on your marriage. Tell people who are struggling as single 00:34:27.140 --> 00:34:31.880 parents things that they can do. And so these are basic felt needs. The church has always been the 00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:36.360 best at meeting felt needs, but more recently we've been the best at promoting ourselves and people are 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:41.920 turned off by that. And social and, um, social channels that, you know, for sure do not reward those 00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:46.920 kinds of posts because people don't interact with those on your channels. So really find that felt 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:51.280 need of how you are going to help someone as a church. And let me tell you some of our posts on 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:56.920 social, the ones that do the best are our compassion pieces of us showing our church doing good, 00:34:57.020 --> 00:35:02.140 going out into our community and helping other people. People want to see the church be the 00:35:02.140 --> 00:35:07.260 church. You're going to win so many more people over with your church and build trust. If you show 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:10.800 your church actually being the church, then if you try to sell people something. 00:35:11.140 --> 00:35:16.420 By the way, I'm, I'm blown away the amount of content. I don't want to highlight content for content, 00:35:16.420 --> 00:35:22.000 but that was a lot of things you just routed off. A lot of these podcasts and episodic 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:26.540 things. Like even, even going back to the whole flip side, which I think is the one that you were 00:35:26.540 --> 00:35:33.060 saying. It's a weekly podcast that goes deeper. Um, and like that's, uh, how, how many, 00:35:33.160 --> 00:35:38.460 uh, how much time do you guys spend on creating content outside of the week? 00:35:38.660 --> 00:35:43.000 Well, our global communications team, we're kind of going through little reorgs, you know, 00:35:43.040 --> 00:35:48.920 they're trying to repurpose people's positions that, um, might've just been in women's ministry. 00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:54.980 Now they're like women's digital producers for this. Like everybody's roles are getting repurposed, 00:35:55.060 --> 00:36:00.900 has something more to do with digital content outside of the main communications team. And we have 00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:06.260 our campuses really focusing on creating content for their communities. And so that kind of helps free up 00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:11.820 our main communications team to help work on this kind of content. So our production team on the 00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:17.780 weekend was really, really great at producing, uh, in-person experience. They've had to relearn 00:36:17.780 --> 00:36:23.540 how to create a great digital experience for the user on a much smaller screen than those gigantic 00:36:23.540 --> 00:36:29.760 jumbo screens inside a room. Um, so that's been a fun transition as well, but our team has been 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:34.080 a little more freed up to create content like this. And we just want to show pastors like 00:36:34.080 --> 00:36:39.080 this has value because I think that's the hardest thing right now. How is this show going to get butts 00:36:39.080 --> 00:36:44.720 in the seats? Well, we have to rethink how we're measuring success. And I think this season has been 00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:53.020 the greatest test to measuring success because we only counted success as butts in the seat, not views on 00:36:53.020 --> 00:36:59.580 the screen, which is going to look different than a butt in the seat as well. So, uh, I don't even know 00:36:59.580 --> 00:37:05.060 if I answered your question, but, um, we try to spend a lot of our time creating that content outside, 00:37:05.060 --> 00:37:12.400 um, of weekend Sunday services and create added value besides the weekend service throughout the week. 00:37:12.460 --> 00:37:19.080 So it's engaging the one, six, seven people that have 167 hours in the week out of the one hour 00:37:19.080 --> 00:37:24.200 or more that you spend in church on Sundays. And we want to make sure that we're engaging people 00:37:24.200 --> 00:37:30.300 and not pushing content at them, but giving them content that could help better their lives and 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:34.900 help them grow closer to Jesus. Haley, I want to know what, when is Bayside jumping on Disney plus? 00:37:35.020 --> 00:37:38.300 That's when I went, when are you guys getting there? They're going to become the Christian Disney plus. 00:37:38.380 --> 00:37:40.380 They don't need Disney plus. They're going to create their own thing. 00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:45.280 That's awesome. Hey, so if I'm just curious, it's not the conversation I wanted to have, 00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:51.060 but this is really interesting to me. Sorry. Um, if, if, where, where, if I wanted to like check out, 00:37:51.160 --> 00:37:55.200 is there like a homepage, a YouTube channel, just a lot of the stuff that you're talking about, 00:37:55.240 --> 00:38:00.000 where am I going? Um, you're going to bayside.com slash or youtube.com slash bayside videos. 00:38:00.500 --> 00:38:04.680 Um, Bayside church was taken before I got there. So that's what it is. Bayside videos. Um, 00:38:04.680 --> 00:38:08.700 but we also have it on our Bayside church app. Okay. Very, very cool. I'm going to, 00:38:08.700 --> 00:38:11.420 I'm going to dig into that. A lot of that. That's really fascinating. 00:38:11.420 --> 00:38:14.240 You can't compete with Mandalorian and we're not going to try. 00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:17.760 I totally missed that reference. I should probably have gotten that. I'm sorry. 00:38:18.220 --> 00:38:19.520 Mandalorian. You haven't seen that show. 00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:22.540 I've seen Mandalorian. What's that have to do with Bayside? Oh, and Disney plus. 00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:23.220 Oh, Disney plus. 00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:28.500 No, no, no. Listen, there's other things. Listen, I mean, I got like baby Yoda back here 00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:33.240 and then you can actually see it. It's like there, but, uh, yeah, that's another, 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:37.320 another thing. You can, you can be Disney plus at least for within your sector. 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:42.500 All right. Hey, um, tell, tell me this. Cause we're now, of course now Haley, you've got 00:38:42.500 --> 00:38:49.060 all sorts of, of, of content. I, I sounds like it's a large church that's doing things. I'm really 00:38:49.060 --> 00:38:55.300 intrigued about this idea of, Hey, individual campuses create some of this compassion content 00:38:55.300 --> 00:39:00.060 in the individual communities. Like that's a thread I may want to pull for, for a later time, 00:39:00.060 --> 00:39:04.720 because now you, you've got stories that are being told within all the communities within, 00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:11.200 within your church. It's just awesome. No wonder that's so much good quality engaging content. 00:39:11.200 --> 00:39:16.580 Um, but I really wanted to want to get into this. So like there's, there's church planners out there 00:39:16.580 --> 00:39:20.980 right now. We're with Stadia Church Planting. We planted a thousand churches around, around the 00:39:20.980 --> 00:39:26.820 world. We're going to plant 400 churches here in 2020, even as chaotic as, as this year has been, 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:31.420 we're, we're going to have our record year with church planning. And so there, there's a lot of 00:39:31.420 --> 00:39:35.860 newbies that are listening to this. Yay. Yay. Newbies. We love you. Keep going. Do what you're 00:39:35.860 --> 00:39:41.220 doing. We need, we need new churches. Um, so I get this question a lot. How do I get started 00:39:41.220 --> 00:39:46.940 building a team? What does it look like? Just maybe real quickly here, let's dialogue through 00:39:46.940 --> 00:39:53.480 an org chart of, I'm starting from scratch. Who do I need? Now it's probably not going to be a paid 00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:59.600 staff person. So what volunteers, what types of skillsets, what, what am I looking for? And if I 00:39:59.600 --> 00:40:05.780 do pay somebody, like, what do I need to get from that person to get value from that? So, uh, who 00:40:05.780 --> 00:40:13.420 wants to go first to take a shot on it? Okay. So if I'm starting out, um, what I am doing is I am 00:40:13.420 --> 00:40:20.020 kind of, um, shaking the trees and finding somebody like-minded with marketplace experience, 00:40:20.020 --> 00:40:25.300 if at all possible. Um, I know, you know, there's some levels of Sunday volunteers, for example, 00:40:25.300 --> 00:40:29.960 you don't have to have any experience. Anybody can do this. You can just onboard. Anybody can be a 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:34.720 greeter and wave hello and be a friendly face. Um, but for communications, I think you really do want 00:40:34.720 --> 00:40:39.980 somebody who has some skills. And so can you find somebody with marketplace experience? Who do you know 00:40:39.980 --> 00:40:45.880 who works, um, at a PR agency? Who do you know who works, um, for in-house communications at a 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:50.380 corporation? And so I think it's a lot of conversations talking to the people, you know, 00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:55.160 who do they know, and then reaching out to those people. Would they be willing to give of their 00:40:55.160 --> 00:41:01.480 unique gifts and talents and volunteer some time for the church? And what's interesting there is say 00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:05.040 they, you know, cause some of those people, professionals might not have a lot of time to 00:41:05.040 --> 00:41:10.360 give, but anything they have to give would be a value. Because if you had say a young, willing 00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:15.860 volunteer who has the time, but not the experience, but you pair them with somebody who has more 00:41:15.860 --> 00:41:20.780 experience, but limited time, you can actually have them working well together. You have the 00:41:20.780 --> 00:41:26.020 experienced marketplace individual providing some training, maybe to somebody young who's still in 00:41:26.020 --> 00:41:31.560 college, or maybe just fresh out of college, giving them some best practices, some tips, some trainings, 00:41:31.560 --> 00:41:37.600 and together they could create a really amazing team for you. So, um, I wouldn't just assign 00:41:37.600 --> 00:41:43.160 things to whatever warm body you have. I think that happens a lot. It's like, oh, Hey, you're the, 00:41:43.460 --> 00:41:48.800 you're our new pastor or you're running our small groups, but can you also do social media? Uh, can 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:53.840 you also leave the communications plan? I think people feel like, well, maybe anybody could do that 00:41:53.840 --> 00:42:00.480 or get away with it. And I just think that is not a recipe for a success or excellence. So I would try to 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:05.180 find somebody with some of that experience and know-how. Yeah. I echo what Lauren's saying there. 00:42:05.180 --> 00:42:10.080 To get someone with experience, I'd also probably add on top of that, um, make sure you find someone 00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:13.940 who's a leader, not just a doer, because at the end of the day, you're going to tap out what they 00:42:13.940 --> 00:42:19.100 can get done if they're just doing and creating the communication. But if they're a leader and can 00:42:19.100 --> 00:42:23.840 lead like Lauren suggesting people who can volunteer their time, you're going to get a lot more output 00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:28.920 out the door. Uh, that being said, if you're, if you want that, you need to be patient as a leader 00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:32.860 because it's going to take the time for them to assemble their team. So I guess at the end of the 00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:36.500 day, what do you want? Do you want quick results or do you want more results? And if you want more, 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:43.020 find a leader. Some other like quick principles that I give, um, for a leader who's wrestling this 00:42:43.020 --> 00:42:47.240 through, one of them is the, the, the growth or control aspects. So let's be honest. If you're 00:42:47.240 --> 00:42:50.600 talking, you know, Jeff, you're saying church planners, right? A lot of church planners, 00:42:50.600 --> 00:42:56.160 those guys and gals are kind of D personality types. They like to control things. Um, but at 00:42:56.160 --> 00:42:59.420 the end of the day, if you're going to want to have church growth, you're going to need to 00:42:59.420 --> 00:43:05.120 release this and release some of that control to get growth. So it might not be done the exact same 00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:10.580 way. And you might not understand the filter that they're using, but empower them and release them 00:43:10.580 --> 00:43:16.280 for greater growth. And then the last thing I would encourage church planners, because there's just so 00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:22.780 much out there, um, is to identify your core audience and then let your platforms be dictated 00:43:22.780 --> 00:43:27.180 off that. I'm sure you've seen it before where you're like, you have a church planner and they're 00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:32.200 planning in a bedroom community and a lead pastor saying, maybe I should be on TikTok. Well, if you're 00:43:32.200 --> 00:43:36.460 in a retirement community, you shouldn't, you don't need to be on TikTok because your core audience 00:43:36.460 --> 00:43:40.780 isn't there. And so I encourage people, Hey, your, your platforms are dictated by your, 00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:45.980 your core audience. So figure that out first. And then you'll figure out where you need to focus your 00:43:45.980 --> 00:43:51.400 communications energies on. Yeah. I love that. Communic, communications, digital, social media, 00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:58.060 these things amplify who you are. They don't change who you are. Uh, if you're a nerdy, geeky, 00:43:58.060 --> 00:44:04.700 bald guy with a goatee in real life, when you get on TikTok, it's not going to make you hip. Um, I, 00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:08.760 I just have, for some reason that, that just popped into my head. I have no idea why that illustration 00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:14.700 is so relevant to me today. Hey, uh, Haley, I'm, I'm just curious from you, what, what's your kind 00:44:14.700 --> 00:44:19.060 of perspective here? Uh, when it, when it comes to maybe starting and building a team? 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:25.000 I have a lot of perspectives on this issue or on this because I am actually, Bayside is in Northern 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.740 California, but I'm in SoCal right now because, um, we'll surprise my mom for her birthday, but also 00:44:29.740 --> 00:44:36.240 we had our first preview service because Bayside's launching a campus in Southern California, which people 00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:41.840 don't know that it's like seven hours away. That's a long way. So if you're on the East coast, drive 00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:46.820 South seven hours, you're probably going through three different States at least. Um, but that's 00:44:46.820 --> 00:44:52.380 just down the coast in SoCal and we're launching a church in the middle of a pandemic, which is 00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:58.980 also the craziest thing. Also fires, also masks and people can't breathe. So all the things, um, 00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:06.940 working against you, but we had overflow for this preview service on Sunday and we heavily relied on 00:45:06.940 --> 00:45:13.360 some digital ads, um, not promoting the service, but promoting again, felt needs of what you will get 00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:18.960 as an individual when you come and decide to like stop being isolated and separated, but come and join 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:24.660 a community of people that genuinely care for you and want God's best for you. Um, so it's funny 00:45:24.660 --> 00:45:31.880 because it's like the leadership only anticipated, um, a fourth of what was there. And because of the 00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:37.940 ads that we had put out on social, um, really helped get the word out and generated momentum, 00:45:37.940 --> 00:45:44.080 but also like word of mouth from friends, from trusted resources. So if you're, you have people at, 00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:49.940 that, you know, that can post about your church being launched or planted, like word of mouth from a 00:45:49.940 --> 00:45:55.480 trusted friend on social, having those people post it because people know people, they don't really 00:45:55.480 --> 00:46:01.900 know unknown brands or churches. Um, that's always going to win. So advocacy, I always say is best 00:46:01.900 --> 00:46:06.620 for a church planner. I also say, go find a church that's close to you that has resources that can 00:46:06.620 --> 00:46:12.040 maybe help you along the way. And I know every church is like strapped and overworked. Um, yes, 00:46:12.060 --> 00:46:18.440 but we also are here to like partner up together. And so if you are in a community, like find someone 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:23.060 that can help maybe guide or teach a volunteer you do have that you want to do this position. 00:46:23.560 --> 00:46:27.860 Um, but here's where I'm going to challenge you pastors. We're always so tempted to pay the worship 00:46:27.860 --> 00:46:32.620 leader, but we want to make a communications person volunteer their time. Both are skilled in 00:46:32.620 --> 00:46:38.680 their positions. Why is one worth being paid for? And the other is not, um, a worship leader is great 00:46:38.680 --> 00:46:44.660 for Sundays, but who's going to like carry the one, six, seven. So I would say carve out some money 00:46:44.660 --> 00:46:48.960 in that budget to invest in the communications person. Professionals are great, but you want 00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:53.800 to make sure someone is theologically sound because they're going to be the mouthpiece of your church. 00:46:53.800 --> 00:47:00.120 And they're setting the tone and culture of your new church out there for all to see. So it's really 00:47:00.120 --> 00:47:05.600 important that they have a good sound theology, um, and that they represent like what you stand for 00:47:05.600 --> 00:47:10.640 at the core because one wrong sentence can completely change what you believe in. Yes, 00:47:10.640 --> 00:47:17.100 we are totally affirming and accepting church. While some people can take that very differently 00:47:17.100 --> 00:47:21.080 and then it takes your church in a completely different direction than maybe you intended. 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:27.760 So just consider like who you're investing in. And I would challenge you really invest in that, um, 00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.880 communications person because they're going to carry their weight in gold for you, 00:47:30.940 --> 00:47:36.600 not just as the start, but moving forward. And in my time at Saddleback, I got to be part of the team 00:47:36.600 --> 00:47:42.140 that launched four international locations, no presence in those countries, in the Philippines, 00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:48.540 in Argentina, in Germany, and Hong Kong, very different countries. Um, but the first presence 00:47:48.540 --> 00:47:54.700 there was our social media presence. So don't underestimate the value of growing those social 00:47:54.700 --> 00:48:01.260 platforms even before you have in-person, um, an in-person community, because that can really help 00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:05.860 move you forward and carry you and create and generate momentum for your church to launch. 00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:11.900 That's awesome. Well said, you know, care about that, that 167, value that 167. Honestly, 00:48:11.900 --> 00:48:17.800 in this COVID season, the 167, uh, may be more valued than, than the worship leader who's at this 00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:22.840 point only doing one gig that that's recording. And that may be a separate conversation and you can 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:29.720 I do want to say they're very valuable. They can probably do a midweek service, but who is 00:48:29.720 --> 00:48:34.820 feeding the voice of your church in that 167? My takeaway is Haley saying fire the worship 00:48:34.820 --> 00:48:38.660 pastors. That's what I, that's what I heard. That's what I heard. We're going to make that 00:48:38.660 --> 00:48:44.480 the title of the podcast, episode 96, fire the worship pastor. I like to be a little controversial 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:50.540 and Haley, you just did it right there. Well said. Hey, awesome. Thank you so much for this time 00:48:50.540 --> 00:48:55.740 in this conversation. I, I, we could go on and we could talk about this for a while, but there's, 00:48:55.880 --> 00:49:02.460 there's so much then when it comes to communicating and in this season, as things are always changing 00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:07.520 and there's more and more issues, I just come back to this idea. And Haley, I think you said it to 00:49:07.520 --> 00:49:14.580 kick off where we talked about this idea of having strategy versus just executing tactics. We can have 00:49:14.580 --> 00:49:23.080 tactics on how to do things, but without the overarching strategy. Oh, Lauren said it. I'm sorry. Lauren, 00:49:23.200 --> 00:49:28.440 we'll give you credit. Shoot. As Lauren said, we kind of even just kick off this idea of, of strategy 00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:36.800 versus tactics where it's, it's, we're not just being responsive, but we're able to strategize and plan 00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:42.260 ahead towards that. And so thank you all of you very much for the time here. Even just as we're 00:49:42.260 --> 00:49:47.400 landing the plane, wrapping up the show, any, any closing thoughts? Lauren, do you have anything 00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:52.440 just closing up for you as we're landing the plane? I guess I would just say it's really overwhelming. 00:49:52.620 --> 00:49:57.640 There's so much you could be doing. For instance, I can sit here and listen to Haley and everything 00:49:57.640 --> 00:50:04.000 that they're doing at Bayside and saying, yes, let's do all of that. Oh my goodness. It's hard to set 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:10.720 those priorities. So I just say, take the time to step back and to reflect on what are the things you 00:50:10.720 --> 00:50:16.860 need to do to meet your goals to that match your strategy. Otherwise you're going in 50 different 00:50:16.860 --> 00:50:22.220 directions and none of it is really serving you or your congregation well. So make sure you carve out 00:50:22.220 --> 00:50:27.780 some time to reflect and really think about what you're doing. Awesome. Thank you very much for that. 00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.900 Take that time to reflect towards it. Haley, do you have anything as we're landing the plane? 00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:36.320 I want to say like, don't let the only time you communicate with your communications team be when 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:42.780 you need something or it's like something is wrong. I think this is definitely the most thankless job 00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:48.840 in the church. I've seen it. Communications people never get time off. Like I have to put 00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:55.560 Sabbath on my team's away message so that people respect my day off and they don't message me or call 00:50:55.560 --> 00:51:00.400 me because if something's really important, it can wait one day. The world will continue. Things will 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:08.420 go on if it waits one day. So respect their Sabbath and then like show appreciation for your team, 00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:13.680 whether it's a little bonus or a raise because they've been working really hard for the season. 00:51:15.060 --> 00:51:21.640 If you can, that's great. If not, take them to lunch every day for the rest of the year. Like that would 00:51:21.640 --> 00:51:27.780 be great. Just kidding. But no, appreciation goes a long way and it'll create loyalists for your 00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:32.580 organization. And you want people that are loyal to your organization. You don't want people that are 00:51:32.580 --> 00:51:39.160 bitter and burnt out. Yeah. At least I'll speak for me. Like I've had those tattoos of bitter and 00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:43.560 burned out. And so that's well said there. I was actually known in my communication days, 00:51:43.560 --> 00:51:48.360 I was known as the no guy because people would tell me all the time, you know, this is what we 00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:53.240 want. And I was just, no, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. No, that's probably not the good 00:51:53.240 --> 00:51:58.280 attitude either. But that came honestly from the bitter and burned out part of my life. So, hey, 00:51:58.340 --> 00:52:03.320 Ben, as we're landing the plane on your side, any thoughts for you? Yeah, two quick things. I know a 00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:08.280 lot of church planners are listening to this, Jeff. The one is, hey, when do I make that switch from 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:14.960 moving from part-time, from volunteer to part-time staff or contract? The encouragement I would give 00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:21.800 for those people is if you have excellence in your core values, then probably now is the time to do it. 00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:26.760 If it's not, then it's probably not. So if you're trying to do things with excellence, again, realize 00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:33.840 that the communications director is showcasing who you are and more importantly, who God's presence is in 00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:40.460 your community. And if you value that, then fund that. Not that you have to. A lot of churches have 00:52:40.460 --> 00:52:45.620 other great priorities on their list. But if excellence is there, stand behind it with some 00:52:45.620 --> 00:52:50.620 dollars. And the last thing is, I think both the ladies have already said it, be gracious to yourself 00:52:50.620 --> 00:52:56.220 because this is a very trying time. Yeah, learn lessons from this. It's interesting. Even the three, 00:52:56.620 --> 00:53:02.300 you know, mega giga churches that we've got on here, Christ Fellowship Miami, Liquid, 00:53:03.160 --> 00:53:07.780 Bayside, they have different strategies. They have different plans. They have different methods and 00:53:07.780 --> 00:53:12.640 how each of these three churches, again, they may be similar in that they're multi-site, but their 00:53:12.640 --> 00:53:18.840 communication strategies, you know, even with all the content that Haley's doing in California versus, 00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:23.040 you know, some of the others, there's just different approaches to that. And so, you know, 00:53:23.080 --> 00:53:29.660 it's developing the strategy. It's getting the resources and moving forward towards that, 00:53:29.780 --> 00:53:34.680 experimenting along the way, even this COVID season. So, ladies, gentlemen, I very much, 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:38.920 thank you for jumping on the podcast. For Ben, for Haley, for Lauren, this is Jeff with The Church 00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:42.620 Digital. Thanks for being here once again. We'll see you next time here at the pod. Y'all have a good day.